J.T. Waldron
While I lack the meticulous, accurate recollections that Jeffrey Strahl wielded while taking down the avid 9/11 apologists of "Screw Loose Change', I did discover that Portland 9/11Truth's Meetup moderator might as well be working for Homeland Security.
Some peripheral exchanges might be missing from this discussion. Once observing member Brad's removal from the email forum, curiosity took over. Would this Meetup leader ban people for arguing on behalf of the best science behind 9/11 truth? If you have the intestinal fortitude to sit through another inane thread, watch what happens in the name of "keeping the conversation civil".
Meetup Group: Portland 9/11 Truth (Note: This is not the other 9/11 truth group called "Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance" which has its leaders putting forth the notion that no planes hit the Twin Towers)
Meetup Moderator: Michael Sullivan (Referred to as Michael)
On Sep 10, 2011, at 1:14 PM, Michael wrote:
I won't be able to make this one. Jim Fetzer lecture yesterday was great. More and more it looks like super weapons like direct energy technology! Nano-thermite is bogus and meant to misdirect us based on science and burn points. Just something to stay open to. We don't need to spend so much time on proving what it really was to the unawakened masses, as much as proving the "official" 9/11 commission fable as false. This will inspire THINKING! Something that we all recognize is missing from our society to some degree.
I do feel like we are winning though! More and more, people are seeing what's happening and know that its just not right. To Obama (Sateoro) what ever his real name is, thanks for being a con and deceiver, it has helped to wake up even more people.
I encourage you all to buy merchandise: bumper sticker, shirts, etc... Buy some car window paint and paint something like I have, "youtube: Dancing Israeli's". These things reach people!
Enjoy your weekend!
Michael
From: "J.T. Waldron"
Sender: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 18:08:15 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
Misdirection?
Was nanothermite/thermate found in various dust samples from different sources? Was it not analyzed as such?
Does that not constitute evidence of the use of thermate as one of the explosive materials?
Seems to me like there is an attempt to remove attention from what is provable back to what is not provable.
The excuse for this diversion? "We must keep an open mind". Hmmm.
Suspiciously Yours,
J.T. Waldron
On Sep 10, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Michael wrote:
Nope. No intentions to divert anyone. Research and go with what ever theories you want. There's different theories and info for whatever hypothesis. Was just basing it off of the speaker and scholars for 9/11 Truth founder's research who has confronted those who claim it was nano-thermite such as Steven Jones, with the evidence to discredit the nano-thermite theory and it seems there was less than a willing discussion on their part.
Either way, say it was this theory or that... Where are we? We may never agree on that, but we can all agree that we were/are being lied to about what happened on 9/11 and we all need to stay united to fight against that.
I was just making the point that since none of us know what REALLY happened in the demolition of the towers, the pentagon, and Pennsylvania, we DO know what didn't happen and that we are being lied to.
In my personal opinion, the best method for waking others up is to just get them to start asking questions for themselves. They'll ask you, "well, what really happened?" And you'll say nano-thermite, they'll come back and say here's evidence that nano-thermite does not heat up, this or that, impossible... Then you're discredited and so is the Truth movement. Therefore, sticking w things that are obvious lies is more beneficial to our cause in waking people up to lies.
And I'm sure nano-thermite particles were found there but so was airplane wreckage at the Pentagon, could be planted to misdirect from the real weapons/demolition equipment, don't you think? Don't discount directed energy, outer space laser type equipment. There's stuff we don't even know about out there.
Suspicious of the government and your friend in Truth, Justice, and Peace,
Michael
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: "J.T. Waldron"
Sender: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 19:57:56 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
They can say "there's evidence that nano-thermite does not heat up" but they don't have the evidence.
Conversely, all the evidence you need to underly the destructive nature of the explosive materials actually found in the dust was just presented in Toronto by David Chandler and Jon Cole hours ago.
The strongest hand to play is the one with actual evidence. Your "strawman argument", which you are implying as the nano-thermite discovery, is the most difficult one for the establishment to refute.
Other cards brought in merely for the sake of argument are aimed at diverting attention from the details backed by actual evidence.
If it wasn't so sad, I'd almost get a chuckle from the idea of people actually bantering about the notion that "nanothermate is bogus".
Who needs COINTELPRO when you got so many willing to facilitate diversionary tactics?
Concerning the chain of custody of the WTC dust, I've seen no credible accounts that undermine the authenticity of the dust samples. The establishment has made no progress refuting the chain of custody of the dust samples. I suppose one could assume that it's in the name of rigorous science that such scrutiny is practiced while carrying water for Judy Woods and James Fetzer. Seems to me a bit naive to assume it's out of some sort of scientific discipline.
I have no problem entertaining ideas that pass the initial smell test, but I also believe focus can be a friend.
J.T.
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Michael wrote:
Like I said, we could debate it all day but where are we JT? We were lied to and us uncovering the tools used to pull it off is important but I see so many get caught up in it and start calling others out to be COINTELPRO and other derragatory
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:51 AM, BRAD wrote:
I hate to but in here after missing the lecture but space lasers and directed energy weapons cutting the core columns at 45% angles into 30 foot lengths? come on brother. I know how cointell works and judy wood is for sure cointell. And a complete pathetic witch. Anyone with a high school education promoting space beams is an obvious narc. watch judy wood unscripted and tell me who the liar from Blacksburg VA is.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJZrj0leylc&feature=related It is really worth watching all three parts. without a script these demons fall apart. It is so illogical basically every arguement that they make. Remember how video fakery jumps into no planes? how are those two related? go read some of the cointell sites and notice the patterns. they attack fetzer for his no 757 at the pentagon theory where he is telling the truth but they fail to mention anything about the ridiculous space beams and directed energy theories he gets paid to promote. the attempt is to divide the movement into different camps all having some factual and much disinformation. Nanothermite is provable and was used to cut the columns. Obviously additional explosives were used before,during and to initialize the collapse any cursory viewing of the collapse demonstrates that.
Michael I don't thing you can debate it all day, in fact I don't thing space beams can be debated at all with the laws of physics intact. It is a diversionary tactic nothing more. I am curious who decided to have James Fetzer come and speak anyway?
From: brad
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
In response to Joel's suggestion, scalar weapons do exsist but they dont pick and choose what to effect and what not to. They do not account for precision 45% cuts in the columns at 30 ft. lengths. The "renovations for two weeks before the attacks do however account for that along with the nanothermite that was used on the columns. -b
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Joel wrote:
I think there are very few people, including myself, who understand the physics of scalar/energy beam weaponry. Most people need experts who can adequately explain all this (jargon). Take a look at the other side of the interview between Dr. Judy Wood and Dr. Greg Jenkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpLbzLzY9HY&feature=related
It's not that she's a witch, is it? I don't think so. What kind of witch and in what respects--and how is being a "witch" even relevant? She's more of a scientist, especially in this context than a witch. I doubt she's even a witch.
From: brad
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
how is taking bits of an interview and adding a dialouge to skew it into something that it wasn't "the other side of the interview" as opposed to an unedited one where the viewer himself can judge the mood of the interview? What scientific or factual evidence do you have that there was scalar weapons used? how did the scalar weapons project into the core of the building and cut the columns at 45% angles without damaging the outside of the building or the steel next to the cuts? Sure godzilla could have cut a deal with papa smurf to have aliens assist him in destroying the twin towers but why grasp at some stupid hypotheticals when there is actual evidence in front of your face unless you are a fed trying to distract people from reality or a total dupe?
From: Joel
Sender: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:21:26 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
Here's the evidence: http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=93433
From: brad
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
Are you for real?
From: joel
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
Date: September 19, 2011 1:47:46 PM PDT
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
I'm a physical person aware of a soul, not a computer-generated/artificial intelligence machine, slave. What are you?
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Michael wrote:
In regards to what?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: brad moss
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
Sorry Michael i meant that towards the blog that joel linked to as "the evidence." I am not trying to argue or bicker or call names or accuse people of being disingenuous, I genuinely wonder if you guys are playing games with me? You tell me that this meetup is not about reptoids and flying saucers but the blog Joel suggested as evidence was simply someone providing hearsay endorsements of known operatives who blame 911 on israel and are deeply involved with the ufo cult. Well its not a cult it is more like chinese theatre done worse. The disclosure project and all of that are military intelligence operatives. Its religion for people who don't believe in religion. And Morgan Reynolds? That guy was a known sheister way back when i used to actually follow 911 truth and that was many years ago. All of that stuff is obvious disinfo to even moderately retarded people. I just joined and I'm wondering if this is some type of hazing the new guy or is this the general dialogue of portland 911 truth? When I said a while back that anyone promoting those theories was a fed I was refering to the people on you tube and presenting at symposiums not any of you who I haven't met and happen to have fallen for this stuff. Having a dialogue about it is the only way to let someone know they have been conned. I don't see it as infighting. I just don't see how hearsay rumors of secret unprovable isreali weapons is evidence or how it should share the stage with the new film from AE 911 truth
9/11: Explosive Evidence — Experts Speak Out
If you really want to do something about 911 then get a copy of that film, make copies, pick neighborhoods and put one on every door. that's what I'm going to do here. I haven't seen the film yet I have only heard the audio but not many people will be able to watch it and ignore the arguments presented. No need to even worry about the Israelis.
From: J.T. Waldron
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
One of the most important advances of the 9/11 Truth movement was the break between James Fetzer and Steven Jones.
In the Fall of 2006, Fetzer spoke at the Rialto Theatre in Tucson. While a good chunk of the lecture was devoted to the solid stuff, he started slipping in the Judy Wood's "exotic weaponry" argument. He was representing Scholars for 9/11 Truth at this time and Steven Jones was a co-founder. Somebody inside the audience recorded footage of the lecture and uploaded it to Youtube. Due to the weak scientific basis for exotic weaponry, Steven Jones responded immediately by withdrawing his participation in "Scholars for 9/11 Truth" and formed his own organization, "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice".
This was one of the most significant advances for the science involving 9/11 Truth. What emerged from "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice" is research that is far more credible than what existed prior to this event in 2006. Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth began to grow an lend their expertise to this subject as well. Now we have a peer-reviewed study of explosives found in the dust particles and a clearer picture of how these materials contributed to the destruction of the buildings.
Not without a fight, of course. Fetzer has become so desperate over the rejection of the exotic weapons argument by other scientists, engineers and architects, he is now reduced to pushing the "no planes hit the towers" theory.
To help marginalize the 9/11 Truth movement, it's important for the least credible science to occupy the stage with the best evidence.
Why? Emphasis on the precise evidence for the demolitions of WTC I, II and 7 is the most dangerous threat to the establishment. It has NIST lying and every politician using Popular Mechanics and the 9/11 Commission report as their excuse for willful ignorance. It has the Royal Institute of British Architects screaming "anti-Semitism" when Architect Richard Gage makes no mention of Judaism in his presentation. It turns adults into crying wee babies and it leaves proponents of the official story with no where to go.
If bickering is setting light to those who would turn this sword of truth into a dull butter knife, so be it. We are now much better off for the similar shake-out that occurred in 2006.
J.T.
From: Michael
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: 911 Event
Houston members, please read below and comment if you'd like. Thx for the info JT. Perhaps using the word "bicker" was not appropriate. I should have said, we can debate, come up w facts about the demolitions but still, where will we be? We'll all still be on this side of their evil agenda. I'd like to unite and come up with ways in how we'll destroy their agenda. And for some reason, I can't figure out how this "how it happened" conversation is really going to get us to our common goal. Yes, we need the facts, why don't we all unite and figure out how we are going to get those facts/documents out of the pentagon ourselves! With the evidence in hand!
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Tim Harless wrote:
Hey Mike, Has anyone looked at this???Tim Harless
Subject: FW: What Does This Word Mean?Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 06:53:48 -0700
If all this is true, we are all in a world of hurt.
Snopes; mixed message.http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/exemptions.asp
It seems very important to pursue the exact definition of this word, which is employed in the controversial health care bill on page 107, but not easily found in any English or American dictionaries.
Dhimmitude -- What does it mean?
Obama used it in the health care bill.
Now isn't this interesting? It is used in the health care law.
Dhimmitude -- I had never heard the word until now. Type it into Google and start reading. Pretty interesting. It's on page 107 of the healthcare bill. I looked this up on Google and yep, it exists.. It is a REAL word.
Word of the Day: Dhimmitude
Dhimmitude is the Muslim system of controlling non-Muslim populations conquered through jihad. Specifically, it is the TAXING of non-Muslims in exchange for tolerating their presence AND as a coercive means of converting conquered remnants to Islam.
ObamaCare allows the establishment of Dhimmitude and Sharia Muslim diktat in the United States . Muslims are specifically exempted from the government mandate to purchase insurance, and also from the penalty tax for being uninsured. Islam considers insurance to be "gambling", "risk-taking", and "usury" and is thus banned. Muslims are specifically granted exemption based on this.
How convenient. So I, as a Christian, will have crippling IRS liens placed against all of my assets, including real estate, cattle, and even accounts receivables, and will face hard prison time because I refuse to buy insurance or pay the penalty tax. Meanwhile, Louis Farrakhan will have no such penalty and will have 100% of his health needs paid for by the de facto government insurance. Non-Muslims will be paying a tax to subsidize Muslims. This is Dhimmitude.
I recommend sending this onto your contacts. American citizens need to know about it --
From: brad
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] word truth
here is the text of page 107:
H. R. 3590—107
(3) ELIGIBILITY AND AMOUNT OF TAX CREDIT OR REDUCED
COST-SHARING.—In the case of an enrollee with respect to whom
a premium tax credit or reduced cost-sharing under section
36B of such Code or section 1402 is being claimed, the following
information:
(A) INFORMATION REGARDING INCOME AND FAMILY
SIZE.—The information described in section 6103(l)(21) for
the taxable year ending with or within the second calendar
year preceding the calendar year in which the plan year
begins.
(B) CHANGES IN CIRCUMSTANCES.—The information
described in section 1412(b)(2), including information with
respect to individuals who were not required to file an
income tax return for the taxable year described in
subparagraph (A) or individuals who experienced changes
in marital status or family size or significant reductions
in income.
(4) EMPLOYER-SPONSORED COVERAGE.—In the case of an
enrollee with respect to whom eligibility for a premium tax
credit under section 36B of such Code or cost-sharing reduction
under section 1402 is being established on the basis that the
enrollee’s (or related individual’s) employer is not treated under
section 36B(c)(2)(C) of such Code as providing minimum essential
coverage or affordable minimum essential coverage, the
following information:
(A) The name, address, and employer identification
number (if available) of the employer.
(B) Whether the enrollee or individual is a full-time
employee and whether the employer provides such minimum
essential coverage.
(C) If the employer provides such minimum essential
coverage, the lowest cost option for the enrollee’s or individual’s
enrollment status and the enrollee’s or individual’s
required contribution (within the meaning of section
5000A(e)(1)(B) of such Code) under the employer-sponsored
plan.
(D) If an enrollee claims an employer’s minimum essential
coverage is unaffordable, the information described
in paragraph (3).
If an enrollee changes employment or obtains additional
employment while enrolled in a qualified health plan for which
such credit or reduction is allowed, the enrollee shall notify
the Exchange of such change or additional employment and
provide the information described in this paragraph with
respect to the new employer.
(5) EXEMPTIONS FROM INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS.—
In the case of an individual who is seeking an exemption
certificate under section 1311(d)(4)(H) from any requirement
or penalty imposed by section 5000A, the following
information:
(A) In the case of an individual seeking exemption
based on the individual’s status as a member of an exempt
religious sect or division, as a member of a health care
sharing ministry, as an Indian, or as an individual eligible
for a hardship exemption, such information as the Secretary
shall prescribe.
Where does It say anything about Dhimmitude?
From: Michael
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] word truth
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 16:19:20 -0400
Tim, please reply to Brad's question when you have a sec. Where is that word, Dhimmitude?
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Tim wrote:
Jimmini:) where do people dream up this misinformation?????what a waste of energy and time:(
Tim
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM, BRAD wrote:
they want to keep people occupied...
On Sep 19, 2011, at 10:25 AM, brad wrote:
I joined the republican party(forgive me) in 07 to promote ron paul, so I get sent stuff like this all the time.
: joel
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
Date: September 19, 2011 1:36:50 PM PDT
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
It shows how deep the conspiracy is--how obvious truth can be confounded by problem-reaction-solution, turning something that could easily wake up the masses into just another distraction and energy-waster. People don't need 9/11 to wake up to the conspiracy right in front of your eyes every time you open your eyes.
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Joel wrote:
It's pretty naive to think Ron Paul is not an insider:
http://www.spirituallysmart.com/ron_paul.html
http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2008/04/22/ron-paul-and-freemasonry/
He's just another puppet. Assuming people actually elected Ron Paul, do you think The Fed would actually be abolished without some other type of similar control being placed on the people? It wouldn't be. Maybe it would be publicized that it would, but you have to go to one of the sources--the Rothschilds. You have to take them down. A name change doesn't change the underlying issue. It's like replacing Bank of America with Wells Fargo. It's also like bringing in a "conservative" to combat a "liberal" who can also say he can create lots of jobs but repeat lies and not bring out the truth of 9/11 and other things.
From: brad
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] word truth
Nice Joel, do you have any discernment at all? Every link you post it to some obvious disinfo site. Alex jones a vatican agent? ted gunderson and john decamp agents? conspiracy of silence fake? Ron paul an insider? where have you been the last four years? I know how insiders are treated and that is not ron paul. they are scared of ron paul and alex jones. I have plenty of complaints about alex jones but being a fed is not one of them. money grubbing?yep. lying about good deals from midas?yep. people on his show for money?yep. a fed? no. he has woken up more people than anyone on the planet. does he spend most of his show talking about himself yes. he has some shortcomings but the impact he has had on the planet is second to none.
and ron paul i have some reservations about on some subjects but promoting him is bad according to joel? wow! what should we do run around talking about space beams and reptillians? is that the solution? Is there any bullshit on the web that you haven't fallen for? why do you even believe that 911 was an inside job? oh wait you don't. you believe it was an attack by jews! lets see what is more supicious three mossad agents filming the demolition after isreal warned the us government before 911 that there was going to be an attack or the irs,cia,sec, office of emergency management all blown up in wtc 7, a missile or whatever killing the auditors at the pentagon, cheney ordering the stand down(with the us military changing its protocol for him to do so) 55 different 911 related drills in the previous two years before 911, the air force blowing up the plane in shanksville, and various us agencys covering up the whole thing for the last 10 years but it was all done by Israel dammit!! YOU FUCKING JEWS!!!! AAAGH! you must be a troll bradly you aren't blaming everything on the fucking jews!
What are you doing to take down the Rothschilds? I'm very curious..
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 1:51 PM, Joel wrote:
You're being ignorant of Israel, still.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/israel_9-11_index.html
From: brad
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
I would take the pepsi challenge on Israel any day of the week. I'm sorry but I wont click on a mike rivero link. I forced myself to listen to him for a couple years even after he was pushing obama, giving him the benefit of the doubt thinking he might be playing a role to speak truth to some leftys but no I believe now that he was playing a role as an agent. Now he says chemtrails are used for nothing more than military communication and will hang up on you if you try to talk about anything but hating jews. Apparently he knows all of the uses for nanoaluminum and depopulation is not one of them. I think russel blaylock would disagree. All the agents talk about is israel and almost every "ex-cia" agent had to push obama no matter the risk of exposure it seemed. that is a pretty blanket statement and i'm sure there are many exceptions but that is the way I perceived it at the time. Israel was created by the anglo oligarchy. It exists only because they own it, have use for it and plans for it. Do you think that operations like converse infosystems exist because of Israeli hegemony or because they play a spying role in collaboration with the, no rather in delegation from the us/british intelligence agencys? I'm not ignorant of Israel, I don't like Israel and when travelling I could even say there were a fair amount of Israelis that I didn't care for a whole lot,although some of them were really cool. I wouldnt say israel is above attacking the us but if it did so it would be on behest of the "rouge network" not because of some super weapon was shouldered by an eight foot Israelite. As far as I know thr uss liberty was an attack carried out by LBJ at the behest of ? whoever shot kennedy I guess. whoever wanted war w/Egypt. I understand that there are a lot of zionists and dual citizens in government but lets not attribute more power to them than they have.
From: Joel
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] word truth
I agree Alex Jones has made a great contribution in more than one way--but that still doesn't make me ignore the reality of the situation. He's still a puppet--there's no ignoring facts like he works for the Vatican/Zionism/Rothschilds--same with Ron Paul. Yes, they've done a lot more than other "leaders" or public figures, but that does not excuse them from criticism or the truth.
It's part of the solution to talk about space beams and reptilians and beings from other star systems and planets and in the underground and the truth about Paul and Jones and any other person you see with clouded eyes.
You keep saying that others say that Jews are the cause--and that's just not the case. You've bought into the grand "anti-Semitism" lies that the Zionists promote and use very effectively. The Rothschilds are reptilians/hybrids masquerading as Jews, then they use the Jew card to keep people ignorant of them, because you're too afraid to talk about the truth openly. You can't criticize the Jews, because, to you, they're holy, sacred, something that's already been drilled into you to be beyond reproach--not allowed to be spoken of except in defense and absurdity. They're too important, powerful, unknown. Subconsciously, you know the truth, but your mind can't handle the truth, so you continue to attack anybody who opposes your closed world views.
From: Joel
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
It's not about a few people or lots of people in countries. It's not that Jews or British or CIA, MI6/MI7, are behind all theses things. It's more a matter of people being intelligent and responsible. We each don't have first-hand knowledge, but we need to use common sense--and we need others' info. You can't trust any government agency nor people spewing hate. The Rothschilds and other Illuminati, dynasty families--international banking royals, heads of governments, and so forth--are the ones with the power. Obviously, the military is controlled by them--and no, the chemtrails are not just a "military communications" device. Use common sense. Israel is super powerful because of where it stands, who controls it, and why. It's not the Jews. It's the "game." It's perceptions, ignorance, and stubbornness. People simply refuse to open their eyes. They're too afraid. So, they're slaves. And they do have super weapons. That's in the mainstream. People choose to believe that the super weapons are a good thing, when the definition of a weapon is the opposite. Stupid belief systems.
From: Michael
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] word truth
Date: September 21, 2011 9:58:23 PM PDT
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
I like the fact that there is a discussion taking place, would love it if there could be more of a civil discussion. We are adults here. No need to attack with insults.
Personally, I've never seen any hard evidence or remote evidence for that matter of actual "reptilian people." Not saying they don't exist but let's just acknowledge that they are people for now.
I have to agree that, as much as I want Ron Paul to "save the day" and expose the FED, it just won't happen. I advocate to others for Ron Paul because of his thoughts but I'm a realist.
Alex Jones is a complete shill. I hated hearing that too Brad, for the first time, but once you open your mind up to it, it's obvious. He's done lots for waking people, but has they woken them up as much as he could? Absolutely not! He stays very clear of Israel and the Jewish mafia, when it is well known that they control the US on all angles. You can't deny that. Yes, American "officials" like Dick Cheney and Bush, etc are all part of it, but to deny the Jewish connection is foolish. Have you heard of the USS LIBERTY? How do you think the jews were granted the "right" to take over Palestine in the 50's?
From: Michael
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
Date: September 21, 2011 10:08:44 PM PDT
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
I see your thoughts there Brad, well said.
Joel, very well said.
There is no end all, be all, bad guy here to point the finger. They're all murderers!
We can all agree on that and that we were completely lied to on 9/11. Its weird though, why would Israel be subserviant to others when they have all the money, weapons, and technology
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:36 PM, BRAD wrote:
I haven't attacked anyone, I just mocked you. When I see people trying to turn 911 truth into a circus parade I speak up.
From: brad
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] word truth
I thought I mentioned the USS liberty in my note. My understanding of it was Israel acting in complicity with LBJ to start a war with egypt. I don't believe that LBJ was controlled by Israel, rather Israel and lbj had the same controllers as I believe is still the case now. I think many people are reluctant to even talk about Israel because ther are so many raving lunatics out there claiming Israel has the power of god or something. Israel didn't create itself, therefore the creators have more power than the created. It has a purpose to the creators and is used for that purpose. there is nothing autonomous about it.
where is your evidence that Alex Jones is a shill? Out to make a buck for sure. guilty of constant self promotion. A suck up to celebrity absolutely. A shill? No I haven't experienced that and I've heard nearly every show since 2005. I have an exellent memory. Show some examples about how he is a shill. Try not to use logical fallacies like "it is well known that the jewish mafia controls the us." Why not "we have consensus the earth is flat and polar bears can't swim in a straight line."
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Michael
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 3:10 PM
Subject: Alex Jones- wake up to deception
Yeah, sorry I read that email after replying.
I thought I mentioned the USS liberty in my note. My understanding of it was Israel acting in complicity with LBJ to start a war with egypt. I don't believe that LBJ was controlled by Israel, rather Israel and lbj had the same controllers as I believe is still the case now.
Who are these controllers?
I think many people are reluctant to even talk about Israel because ther are so many raving lunatics out there claiming Israel has the power of god or something. Israel didn't create itself, therefore the creators have more power than the created. It has a purpose to the creators and is used for that purpose. there is nothing autonomous about it.
Ever hear of the golden rule, he who has the gold, rules! I'm sure there is some truth to what you are saying.
where is your evidence that Alex Jones is a shill? Out to make a buck for sure. guilty of constant self promotion. A suck up to celebrity absolutely. A shill? No I haven't experienced that and I've heard nearly every show since 2005. I have an exellent memory. Show some examples about how he is a shill. Try not to use logical fallacies like "it is well known that the jewish mafia controls the us." Why not "we have consensus the earth is flat and polar bears can't swim in a straight line."
Waking up people to Alex Jones is very difficult, just try it for a week. Pay attention to how defensive he gets, goes off on anyone that says anything about Israel involvement, etc. He's a gate-keeper, no different than the rest of the shills on TV. Like I said, just try it for a week. Be willing to give up a little bit of what you think you know and see if a small glimpse of light gets through. After all, this is what we try to get people to do when waking them up to 9/11. Remember, being wrong about something is a good thing, it means you have just reached a higher level of consciousness and understanding. I sure hope that I'm wrong.
Alex Jones Provides Platform to Fanatical Zionist Wall St. Rabbi/Goldman Sachs VP http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2011/09/alex-jones-provides.html
Just entertain the idea that he could possibly not have your best interest at heart and see what happens. I don't know about you all but the only reason I'm involved in any of this TRUTH business is because I believe in integrity, values, TRUTH, justice, peace, and LOVE for all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYnzjP_Bm1g&feature=related
From: brad
Sender: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:08:03 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Alex Jones- wake up to deception
that is quite a deceptive article. the rabbi came on the show as the director of JPFO. Are you now saying that JPFO is an evil zionist organization? Why did that article fail to mention JPFO even once? that is why he was on there. did jpfo pay to be on the AJ show? probably that is often how it works. it is quite interesting how the article confuses Torah based education with talmudic indoctrination. not a mistake , done on purpose. So you are saying Jews are bad? I have known a lot of jews and most of them are really good people. Fun to make jokes about, but good people. So your evidence is a blog article that claims the rabbi works for Goldman sachs. Wow. My brother works for goldman sachs. Not a jew. not a zionist. JPFO shares many of the same goals as does AJ and myself and what you should be working towards. Instead you spend your time trying to make people hack at the branches and avoid the root. You want people to be concerned with some boogieman Israel, but avoid dealing with the AMERICANS that have committed crimes and can be prosecuted for what they did. you cant do anything about some other sovereign nation, we collectively can do something about crimes committed here. Why would a 911 truth group spend all of its energy talking about Israel and Palestine and jews and christians and space beams when there are 1500 credible architects and engineering professionals putting their asses on the line proving to any reasonable person that the three towers were brought down by controlled demolition? You say nanothermite is disinfo. wow, because its provable. Instead you promote space beams and things that are unprovable even if it were used. You spen your energy promoting the idea that alex jones is a gatekeeper when he is bringing the same message to THE MAINSTREAM that others are bringing to a few people at a time. everyone who is having a positive effect you spend your energies trying to turn people away from them.
SOMETHING IS FISHY IN PORTLAND 911 TRUTH.
If i worked for the feds here is the strategy i would follow. I would move to a new city where nobody knows me and can say that i work for the goverment. I would start a group claiming to oppose the issue that I am trying to protect. I would try to discourage any talk about what is actually effective and keep the dialouge in areas that are completely unprovable and ridiculous to normal people who it is essential to relate with if there is to be social change. keep people spinning in circles promote attacks on foreign boogiemen kind of like muslim terrorists. dissuade newbies from listening to anyone that can direct them towards the root of the problem and attack anyone who is having a big effect. play the good guy and have my colleagues pipe in with the reptillian shapeshifting theories while pretending that as "the leader" I am against all of that. If anyone joins the group that understands how things actually work try to make the group so disparaging and retarded that they are dissuaded from being active. once the group is formed you can have some control over the discourse in that area. Make people work for prosecutions on their own but as all costs keep the group as rabid as possible, discourage any real activism - keep the focus on jews and space beams and palestine and hating anyone who is having an effect. Use ridiculous claims in blog articles written by cointell officers as evidence and avoid any real evidence at all costs. this is how I would try to control a movement in any given geographical area. The problem is this only works on fools. Intelligent people will see you for what you are.
wait a minute that isn't fish that I smell, I think its B,B,B,Bacon.......
From: Michael
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Alex Jones- wake up to deception
Wow! I have to say, I really like your "in your face" attitude. But I would be more receptive if you used more tact, I wonder if you speak like that in all of your relationships. I'm just pointing out somethings about Alex Jones and the Jewish mafia that has been running this country, with the aid of all the horrible american bad guys you speak of, for some time now.
HEY EVERYONE, only pay attention to A&E, don't look at all of the parties involved! Or the reasons for doing it! Don't pay attention to all of the dual-citizenships in DC of Israel and the heads of all of the major media networks. Just be obsessed with nano-thermite. How's that Brad? Who doesn't live in Portland and hasn't started anything for 9/11 Truth in his "home city of Corvalis."
Don't take that tone again or I'll bar you from the group on grounds of harrassment and in-fighting.
Hope you are all having a good one. I'm getting on with my day of spreading Truth, Peace and Love.
Michael
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Joel wrote:
It's about time more people wake up to the reality of Israel! and Israeli-American affairs and media and corporate control through Zionist and secret society concerns! Indeed, stop wasting your time and energy in-fighting, Brad, which is what you're doing. People are searching for the truth, and Brad bashes people for doing so.
From: brad
Sender: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 15:11:34 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Alex Jones- wake up to deception
alex jones talks about the Isrealli dual citizens in and now out of the obama regime quite often. he must be a shill. I'm not in-fighting I smell something funny in this meetup. I may have been the only person to bring it up but I can guarantee that others have been turned off by all this isrealli space beam reptillian stuff. most people just seperate themselves from the stuff if it feels wrong but I like to point it out if it smells fishy. If just some of the links you post were disinfo I might have thought that you guys were dupes, but when all of the sites are disinfo and you guys(I'm assuming here I may be off base) have james fetzer come speak, promote the whole fake wing of 911 truth and talk bad about the people that are reaching more people than anybody else whether you like them or not(alex jones,ron paul and architects and engineers for 911 truth)it REALLY SMELLS FISHY TO ME. I was in portland two weekends ago and went down to lucky lab to get a feel in person about the legitimacy of you guys and see what you talk about in person, but ther was only like 10 people in the whole place and none of them looked like truthers. If I was a shill I would definitely have a drinking night to establish my social standing with the group in the city I just moved to, while I spilled my filth about jews and unprovable space theories. It is actually the same strategy (not the drinking night) that I use when fighting fluoridation here locally, but in reverse. THEY try to steer the discourse into areas of dentists and claim vs counterclaim and I focus on what is provable- that the hydroflurosalicic acid used is nothing but unrefined.toxic industrial waste. THEY always attempt to switch the debate into the science of fluoridation wherew you can find a stack of information a mile high either pro or con fluoride, that way it clogs up the city councils forever with muddy information that the people holding seats on the council are not really qualified to quantify the validity of. I see you doing the same thing with 911 truth, switching the debate into some muddy spectrum where no one is qualified to determine whether some exotic weaponry was used. "well its so exotic that nobody knows how it works therefore nobody can or can't prove whether it was used at all(except for some guy who has a blog)." In addition if this is all just the result of some "jewry" I could care less. I want accountability for the crimes that are committed, I could care less what the motives are fore some sick murderer to commit their crimes. Focusing on some jewish conspiracy puts the debate into some unprovable world you could never prove anything one way or another. you can't prove motive. You can prove crime and physics. If you were some follower who thought these things i would think you were just a fool but since you are the so called "leader" of this meetup I am quite convinced that you are something else.. like I said I smell bacon. -bradly
From: Michael
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Alex Jones- wake up to deception
Suit yourself Brad. Thanks for your interest in the group and now I thank you for your absence. Didn't bother to read anything but the first line of your email and it didn't seem like you were kidding.
In a related note, there's protests in NY and LA regarding the Federal Reserve and the criminal money changers, Alex Jones barely mentions it. Isn't that what he is always working for? You'd think he'd make it a big deal. How can we get something like that going here in Portland? Anyone?
Take care Brad
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Joel wrote:
Great points, Michael. Indeed, Alex Jones would be out of a job if he attacked the financial power stack-of-cards pyramid scheme, because they finance his "career."
I think stuff like that isn't going on in Portland simply because Portland is so much smaller compared to LA and NYC. Seattle had huge protests about the WTO when they were in town, because that's where those banksters operate (occasionally). Wall Street is always open to pillage--it's the biggest financial center, except London?--and LA is the biggest entertainment (brainwashing) capitol, second-largest city in this country, though it is also very forward in many of the things it does. Rome is huge--they should be protesting there, but they're pretty religious. Greece was having protests, too. Americans are pretty tame, except for some who've been rocked by 9/11, which should be a great catalyst for positive change--and it has been--though the negative seems to overshadow the good.
"GCN's yoke with [affiliate of] ABC makes sense considering their willingness to broadcast commercials for New Age healing companies such as Herbalhealer.com. The New Age movement is an intrinsic part of the New World Order and most alternative media broadcasters are helping to further this movement.
GCN's mainstream media connection might also account for the fact that Alex Jones, GCN's main broadcaster, will not expose the high-level players in the NWO network, such as the Jesuits and the Scientologists (who employ many of the same control tactics as the Jesuits.)
For more information see this particular webpage: GCN: An ABC Affiliate (Note: We do not agree with every article or opinion on this website.)" (http://libertytothecaptives.net/gcn_abc_affiliate.html) --Alex's broadcast company. Note: They don't expose Zionists, either.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1813351/posts 'In addition, when I asked Mrs. Koernke where she thought Ted Anderson stood on the truth movement (i.e. if he really believed in its ideals), she said that “he was a businessman out to make money off the patriot movement, and he was just using them as a source to sell gold and silver for Midas Resources."'Just a business exploiting the "truth."
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:19 PM, brad moss wrote:
in many ways joel I would agree with the quote from mrs. koerneke whomever that is. I listened to mark a lot a long time ago and I liked his take on things at the time. I assume that is his wife. He always said to keep an eye on your local adl members and if they pack up and split town you had better do the same(concerning false flags)probably good advice. yes silverstein is of jewish descent but what is relevant about that? HOw about rumsfeld? he's not a jew but of german descent so I guess he is a good guy. wait let me guess.... he's a jew lover!
From: brad
Sender: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 01:03:24 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Alex Jones- wake up to deception
If you cant think of any rebuttal for my perceptions Michael just pretend you didn't read it. Cover your ears and say three times "I cant hear you ." I can't know what you are but I can certainly see your actions. "you will know them by their deeds."
From: Michael
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Alex Jones- wake up to deception
Date: September 27, 2011 10:15:04 PM PDT
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sorry everyone who has been reading all of the negative crap by Brad, finally got him blocked from the group. Its funny how as soon as people start getting to the TRUTH, especially about Zionists, the attacks and discourse becomes much more angry and defensive. Hmmmmm?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: Greg
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 10:07:33 -0500
To: John Beatty
Cc:
Subject: Re: Have you seen this? (and yes it's really me 8-)
Hi. It's Mr. Negative here. I have little to no faith in Houston as far as any number of activists or concerned citizens stepping out in the streets to do anything other than yell at the few who are in the streets. I have bets that the number won't be over 30 if it does happen. We might hear a lot of honks when we're on the bridge, but this city is still very much asleep in my opinion.
greg
From: Michael
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 16:34:22 +0000
To: Greg from Houston
ReplyTo: Michael
Cc:
Subject: Re: Have you seen this? (and yes it's really me 8-)
Were doing it here in Portland. Occupyportland.org
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:54 AM, Michael wrote:
Awesome to see these events trying to pop up all over the country in attempt to combat the banksters and bring awareness.
Also, Wayne Madsen was on Alex Jones today. Last time I heard from him, he was writing a book about Obama's birthplace. Hmmmmmm, funny, but no mention of that today. Just illustrating how phony AJ and his guests can be at times. One big psy-op!!! And for all you AJ lovers out there, Yes he has a good platform for "waking people up" but he's not doing it fully and has interests other than the "peoples prosperity, integrity and love" guiding him. Watch how defensive he gets about Israel. Its just so obvious. Rediscover911.com
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: "J.T. Waldron"
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 14:00:36 -0400
Just checking - are you weighing in on the debate with the guy you kicked off the forum?
J.T.
From: Michael
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Re: Have you seen this? Also, Wayne Madsenon Alex Jones today.
Date: September 28, 2011 11:09:54 AM PDT
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
What debate JT? What is your problem man? Seriously! I have nothing to hide. I'm sick of your accusations as well. I keep saying that I don't know exactly what happened on 9/11, other than I know I and we are all being lied to. I posted some meetups and action events. Will you be there as my brother or my enemy? What are you trying to prove? Why are you so paranoid? I remember how we went to a rally about a year ago and you seemed cool. I tried to get stuff going with you and for whatever reason, you got all reclusive and secretive. Don't respond with anything negative or less than constructive, if you can't do that, remove yourself from the group. Hope you get disillusioned about who I am. I will not sit here and defend my efforts to promote Truth, Justice, and Peace for one second longer
From: "J.T. Waldron"
Sender: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 14:53:47 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Re: Have you seen this? Also, Wayne Madsenon Alex Jones today.
Well, I was under the impression that there was an exchange between you and Brad Moss about subjects concerning Israel, Zionism, Judaism and Alex Jones.
What initially caught my attention was when the only explosive residue that remains in the dust samples as evidence was being dismissed as bogus based on a presentation by James Fetzer. That would catch anybody's attention.
You agree we're being lied to. Fine. That makes a big group.
Ever answer an employment add to find a group of people sitting in a room waiting for a pitch for a straight commission sales job? One might figure out what it is and get up to leave the room. What does the person running the meeting do? Explain to the rest of the crowd how that the person who just left "doesn't have what it takes to soar with the eagles and needs to be confined to a 9-5 job".
When you pick up the same subject and reinforce your points after you pulled the dude's plug (because of your exchange over the same subject matter) it looks self serving. Maybe it's just me with an etiquette issue.
Anyway, if you think that I'm not strong enough against Alex Jones and Zionism or I'm leaning too heavy on the stuff that would work in a judicial review, then do what you think is important in this case.
J.T.
From: Michael
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Re: Have you seen this? Also, Wayne MadsenonAlex Jones today.
Date: September 28, 2011 12:31:53 PM PDT
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
I appreciate your tone, very constructive yet still slightly accusational, regarding your comment about pulling his plug. He was being insulting. We are all not going to see things with the exact same view and that's ok, but there must be tact and respect durin discussion. That's why he was removed from the group. Not bc I'm self serving.
I agree that there is evidence of things that would hold up "judicially" and I am all for that. I only said to be aware of the possibility based on other physical evidence that could point to other theories of the demolitions. Sorry if its not perfectly in line with your views, but that's the way it is. If you, JT, and anyone else, only want to believe A&E for 911 Truth, then so be it, but I am going to keep an open mind and not be nieve enough to think that I know every type of explosive or super weapon out there. I remember how upset I got with a friend when he introduced the "no planes" theory, but now realize that it is indeed possible, based on the corporate media power structure. That's why I focus on having a "big group" as you say, rather than isolate and divide, as all of your comments seem to point to. We need to have common ground, storm DC and take the Truth right out of the pentagon computers. Courts aren't going to save you or me or provide any justice, look at the history, they're all corrupt.
I hope some of this gets through to you
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg
To: sullivan michael < Michael>
Cc: Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance and various individuals
Sent: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:12:01 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: URGENT ACTION: Please Vote to have OWS include a 9/11 truth legal action
The idea that we will ever have an honest investigation into the attacks of September 11, 2001 is absurd. The People, including many 'experts' have done the investigation! It's been done and we even know many names of those involved. To think for any reason whatsoever that there might one day be an official investigation where justice is involved is nothing but a pipe dream. If the day ever came that we could have an real investigation it would mean that there would be no need for it because that would mean the shit has been cleaned up and we have honest people in control.
IF... there ever was to be an investigation such as what shills like Steven Jones, David Ray Griffin, the AE911Truth team and others are pushing for then I assure you the so-called truthers would no doubt be represented by those very shills and their messages. If they used the baseless claim that nanothermite brought down the towers, for example, the truthers would be laughed out of court immediately because the science isn't there to support the absurd theory that something that is not an explosive can bring down towers alone.
OR... if we had such an investigation they could use those very shills along with AJ, Tarpley and others who cover up for Israel's crimes and turn to entire thing into a big - USA did it campaign as part of their way of tearing down this country and bringing us into a one-world government. The perpetrators knew the people would learn about the big lie so they put their people in place to begin with and have been teaching people to change "inside job" for years. The perpetrators want the U.S. to be blamed in the end as Israel gets off without a slap on the wrist and our country is exposed as the sole criminal who should be dealt with by blending us in with other nations around the globe for our own 'safety.'
Calling for a new investigation is a total joke and is no doubt part of what the shills in the movement want us to keep fighting for. It's a total stalling tactic. The perpetrators don't care if AE911Truth keeps doing what they do. They don't care what AJ says. They don't care what Webster Tarpley shares with the public. The perps don't care as long as you don't go after them. The fake truth movement was set in motion to help keep focus on stupid things like asking for justice through a real investigation (LMAO) instead of focusing on the pricks that orchestrated and profited from the attacks.
My thoughts,
greg
From: Michael
To: Greg < Greg from Houston>
Cc: Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance and various individuals
Sent: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 23:35:25 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: URGENT ACTION: Please Vote to have OWS include a 9/11 truth legal action
Greg, I love your thinking! Including the idea that there is even reason to question 9/11 at OWS is a step in the right direction. Pinning our hopes on an investigation is naive, Pinning our hopes on getting the masses to question the OCT of 9/11 is necessary. We have to keep stirring the pot.
Nanothermite?
J.T. Waldron jt@soundandfury.tv
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Re: URGENT ACTION: Please Vote to have OWS include a 9/11 truth legal action
Date: October 19, 2011 1:00:37 PM PDT
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
If you got reproducible, scientific studies that point to exotic weaponry, let's see them.
It's a red flag when the statement is made denying the explosive nature of nanothermate, especially when it was so adequately demonstrated on the 10th anniversary by David Chandler and Jon Cole. They spent hours doing it. Again, there's never an attempt to deny the existence of other explosives, so mutual exclusivity seems to only be implied by those arguing against thermate (usually by calling it thermite).
I guess if you repeat something a number of times, regardless of the disparity between what you are saying and what was demonstrated publicly, we might finally throw up our hands and abandon any evidence that would be helpful for the pursuit of justice.
Sure, every branch of our government is corrupt or "rigged". Seen it up close. That doesn't mean you can't paint somebody in the corner and create a defining moment. Seen that happen as well.
This crime is absent an authentic criminal investigation. Due process has never been used in this case.
Seems we're being encouraged to abandon this pursuit because it won't be a fair process. When was it ever a fair process? Were there ever productive outcomes (new discoveries) that resulted from past investigations? Certainly.
If an authentic criminal investigation is a stall tactic, what's being stalled? Where is due process if we're expected to "go after the perps"?
J.T.
On Oct 19, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Michael wrote:
If you got reproducible, scientific studies that point to exotic weaponry, let's see them.
Who is this statement to, JT? If you're responding to Greg's comments, then it would be great if you could click reply to all to keep the discussion intact. You know where I stand on the demolitions. I DON'T KNOW!!!
What is your message advocating JT? Its confusing. Are you in favor of a real investigation? Thermite/thermate whatever in my book buddy. Like I said, let's occupy the pentagon and get the answers, instead of the petty infighting that gets us NO WHERE! Who's with me?
Michael
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:46 PM, J.T. Waldron wrote:
Yes, I hit "reply" instead of "reply all", but "reply all" wouldn't have worked either. I'll go ahead and add all the various emails to this response if you prefer.
I don't see any ambiguity in my statement below. If there's something you don't understand, let me know what it is.
J.T.
From:Greg from Houston
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 23:47:34 +0000 (UTC)
To: Greg
Cc: Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance and various individuals
Subject: adenda Re: URGENT ACTION: Please Vote to have OWS include a 9/11 truth legal action
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/27/nanothermite-if-it-doesnt-fit-you-must-acquit/
Dr Jones already proved himself as a spoiler with cold fusion. Dr Jones was fired for being slack, not 9/11 truth. Kevin Barret was fired for 9/11 truth.
No professional demolition experts support thermate. Take the best from all theories. Hurricane Erin was in a perfect position to act as a vaccum cleaner, preventing any evidence of nuclear demolition from reaching sensors in Europe by prevailing winds. Judy Wood includes the best evidence of nuclear demolition at her website, although she proposes exotic weapons. Dr Ed Ward proves nuclear demolition, citing radiation specific cancers and tritium levels 55X normal, etc.
All collapse videos are suspect. The collapse videos of Building 7 are 100% fake. http://septemberclues.info/wtc_collapses.htm
On Oct 21, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Michael wrote:
So.... Greg, why do you think the towers fell?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Oct 22, 2011, at 12:12 AM, J.T. Waldron wrote:
O.K., so I'm reading that no professional demolition experts support thermite (which, again, is supposed to be thermate).
You telling me Tom Sullivan doesn't support the use of thermate as a means to cut key loads?
Bullshit.
http://weeklyintercept.blogspot.com/2011/03/tom-sullivan-explosives-loader.html
"September Clues":
http://weeklyintercept.blogspot.com/2011/07/reply-to-fetzer-over-no-plane-nonsense.html
One redeeming quality about "September Clues" is that it helps to find out who is pushing this theory in the first place. Take a good look at this movie and you soon realize that those pushing the "no planes hit the building theory" are compromised. To state the obvious, the only functions for these assertions are to distract the 9/11 Truth movement and diminish its credibility. Cass Sunstein's wet dream.
If a movement is going to make it on its own, however, it must be able to overcome these incohesive side shows to become stronger and more focused in its message. That is exactly what happened in 2006 between "Scholars for 9/11 Truth" and "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice".
The prospect of an effective 9/11 Truth movement in Portland seems to be nightmare for somebody.
J.T.
On Oct 22, 2011, at 10:10 AM, Michael wrote:
Hey JT,
What's with the last comment of your previous email? What would you do to have a more "effective Portland 9/11 Truth?" Better yet, what have you/are you doing for Portland 9/11 Truth except dish out negative comments? You don't strike me as someone who is actually out to do good, just sayin'. Not sure if its your ego or you are part of the establishment but you criticize with no better suggestions. Why is that?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: Greg from Houston
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Re: adenda Re: URGENT ACTION: Please Vote to have OWS include a 9/11 truth legal action
Date: October 22, 2011 11:27:15 AM PDT
J.T.,
I spent a while the other night writing responses to this e-mail chain, but decided to think it out more. For now...
"those pushing the "no planes hit the building theory" are compromised."
Am I compromised, J.T.? Are all of the many activists I know who also support the claim that we shown fake images of planes hitting towers also compromised? Or is this maybe about the evidence and not who mentions it? Is it possible that crazy acting people were put out there to introduce the idea of no-planes to discredit that reality? That way shills like Alex Jones can call them crazy people, completely ignore the evidence to support the theories and then sweep it under the rug like it never happened, leaving his hypnotized audience to then repeat his rhetoric and attack anyone who so much as mentions no-planes?
"To state the obvious, the only functions for these assertions are to distract the 9/11 Truth movement and diminish its credibility."
I certainly wouldn't start out saying it's "obvious" and definitely wouldn't take it even further using the word "only," especially when the statement is so far from reality. The argument that the no-planes theories are "only" there to "distract" and "diminish" "credibility" is nothing but rhetoric. In fact it reminds me of sheeple in the street telling me that there is no way we could have been lied to about the attacks of September 11, 2001 because too many people would have to be involved. Neither of those statements are based on any evidence whatsoever. In fact the evidence refutes both statements.
I can easily prove my point by asking you, J.T., to please point me in the direction of any mainstream media reports on TV, online or in print that refer to 9/11 truthers as no-planers! If the no-planes theory isn't based on evidence and is really created by the perps to discredit the movement then wouldn't the media masterminds be using it repeatedly to do just that? The fact is that the terrorist attacks of that day were mostly thanks to a major media hoax. The major weapon in regards to the events was and remains the mainstream media and there is no chance in the world that they're going to even entertain the idea of exposing themselves by sharing the message of fake videos with the public. Again, if you are so certain that one of the only reasons is to discredit the movement then please, please point out where anyone other than confused truthers are calling out that we're all nuts for believing such things. I remember one interview on Fox News several years ago when Morgan Reynolds said it looked like a cartoon. Seems that I'd have seen tons of clips by now if that is the reason for the theories in the first place.
I have had no problem remaining good friends with and continuing to hit the streets with others who do not see eye-to-eye with me about no-planes. That is because it is only a divisive theory when people like you, J.T., make it into such! It is those like you who try to refute evidence with rhetoric who add the potential of a less-effective group.
The no-planes angle is the best way to attack and destroy their biggest, most powerful weapon of all time – their fake news. Exposing the clear fact that we were shown images that could not represent reality could do wonders to finally discredit the media. So you see, it's the other way around. The theory helps destroy the media who helped pull off the attacks, not those sharing the honest message. And that is why the media will NEVER try to make no-planes an issue to discredit anyone.
I don't think you have a clue about why the scholars groups split up. I say that because it seems clear to me that you buy into the fake truth movement and support the given leaders without questioning things with logic and reason. If you believe shills like either of the Jones scumbags who are seen as leaders than you're sure as lost. Rhetoric will never win a debate.
So many so-called truthers are happy to explain to strangers that the 80+ floors below the alleged impact site would have had to provide resistance, meaning the Twin Towers could never have come down at near free fall speed. Yet so many of those same truthers ignore the exact same science that explains that the building would not only have provided resistance to the floors above, but also to a plane hitting the side of the tower. If you watch the video of the alleged second hit you'll see there is NO COLLISION! Not only did the building provide no resistance whatsoever to a 757, it even allowed it to pass all the way through the building at the same speed it did through thin air and then come out on the other side (nosed-out). Hmmmm. I guess I should trust those videos because to do otherwise would be divisive.
In regards to the sad joke of nanothermite pushed down the throats of the less-than-free-thinking truthers:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/27/nanothermite-if-it-doesnt-fit-you-must-acquit/
The prospect of thinking outside of the box with logic and reason seems to be a nightmare for somebody.
Thanks,
greg
Missing wing, no collision, tail wings go in same hole as front wings, which are much lower, traveling through the building without slowing at all from the speed in thin air, impossible speeds, etc. I could go on and on and on...
Hmmmmm!!!! Nothing to see here. Look away. :P
From: jt@soundandfury.tv
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Re: adenda Re: URGENT ACTION: Please Vote to have OWS include a 9/11 truth legal action
Date: October 22, 2011 3:46:43 PM PDT
This is a response to Mike' s last email and to Greg's email (nanothermite-if-it-doesn't-fit-you-must-acquit):
Not my ego. Just no place to go. I've been actively involved with 9/11 Truth since 2005.
Here's some of the work we've done since the group started:
http://www.youtube.com/user/911TruthTucson
If you look at the uploads, you could see some of the past demos.
This one is particularly interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2jrap_ct1U
We hosted Fetzer, Gage, Rodriguez, Griffin, Bowman, etc.
By the way, the 2006 Tucson presentation was one of the events that caused Steven Jones to reconsider his relationship with Fetzer. We watched it in real time as it came to a head.
It's been a lot of trial and error. First thing we noticed, one of the founders was a little squishy over Israeli involvement. Insisted on minutes of the meetings (this serves to implicate the group later) and changing the minutes whenever a guest speaker would discuss involvement by Israel.
And of course, it's one of the founders of the the group that happened to be pulling this stuff.
The typical tactics are to try to schedule events that are bad ideas (on off days or dumb times), exhaust the groups treasury, or waste people's time with ventures that have a high use of time per person reached.
Speaking of wasting time, the local Pima County Green Party in AZ insisted on having people collect signatures from door to door residents instead of educating their potential base about their group, which is the fastest path to ballot access. Other folks will try to get you to hook up with groups that are obviously compromised, like Move-On or other ineffectual massively funded groups that lean heavy on party politics.
Back then, what broke up Phoenix's 9/11 Truth group (exodus to 'We Are Change') was the hours spent by them arguing over protrusions (In 1st "Loose Change" and "In Plane Site" ) at the bottom of the plane and the the flame-up from the walls near the engines while the plane is going into the building. Staring at still frames, again.
This was a case of a group leader (Kent Knudsen) who allowed this crap to occupy the people's time until they got frustrated and gave up. Observing this phenomenon caused us to realize that those pushing this stuff are best viewed as compromised, For example, a person we're presenting to (usually politicians or people in a meaningful position of power) would immediately latch on to the stupidest point to relieve themselves of the need to further look into the matter. True to form, you wind up with a podster wriggling his way into a meeting. This typically turns into a wasted meeting that goes South the instant Mr. Pod opens his mouth. Despite these occurrences, we made good progress.
There has been a certain degree of success for 9/11 Truth. That's why it is now a target for these shenanigans.
This seems less than ironic given that Portland, OR is a huge hub for activism. Home of the largest extra-New York occupation movement in the country.
Most of the Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance subscribe to and push the "September Clues" bunk. First learning this, I was able to relate to the dude that put on the "They Live" glasses for the first time. Add this to attempting to denounce the only evidence indicating use of explosive material - Based on a presentation by Jim Fetzer. You can't do anything with this. An elementary point learned long ago. I try to figure out how I can meaningfully contribute, but the situation is compromised.
Sure, I lack tact, but I'll normally shut up unless something absurd comes my way. Then it shouldn't go unchallenged. I encourage others to do so as well.
By the way. No response to my past point about abandoning an authentic criminal investigation and due process. Would like to see one.
Hope this helps,
J.T.
From: Greg
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 20:30:37 -0500
To: houston truth
Subject: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
So sad to see the honest ones punished for speaking the truth.
greg
Subject: Interesting development...
FYI: There was a video floating around on Youtube of a lady named Patricia McAllister who attended the LA Occupy Wall St event. It gained a lot of attention because of her honesty. Of course the mainstream media took it out of context and made a mockery of her... nothing new here.
http://vimeo.com/30857269
Apparently she was recently fired from her job because of her outspokenness towards the financial problems in America. Didn't even get a pink slip to go with the dismissal!
You can download a podcast from Truth Hertz - Charles Giuliani talk show and listen to her experience. Very interesting!
On Oct 24, 2011, at 10:49 PM, Michael wrote:
Greg,
Sorry if you're working on a response. Just curious... If it was media fakery and not nanothermite/mate, what do you or anyone else in the group think brought down the towers?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: Greg
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 23:43:18 -0500
To:
Cc: houston truth
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
It seems to me most 9/11 truthers don't believe that planes had anything to do with the collapse of the towers so whether one is a no-planer or not shouldn't change that. I don't deny that nanothermite could have played a role in the destruction, but it definitely isn't the smoking gun to bring justice.
Being a no-planer and not buying into the hype about nanothermite still leaves infinite options for the destruction of the Twin Towers. Nanothermite is not a high explosive so ruling that out as the main component should come as no surprise to anyone in my opinion.
greg
On Oct 24, 2011, at 11:51 PM, Michael wrote:
So... Nanothermite played a role, what role do you think?
Does anybody else in this entire group have any thoughts on what brought the towers down? Anyone?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: Greg
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 23:56:45 -0500
To:
Cc: houston truth
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
Nanothermite sure as ____ didn't bring the towers down. That I do know. I assume it could have been used on columns to help cut the steel, but it didn't cause the squibs I've seen ejecting from the towers and didn't turn all of that concrete and steel into dust. The idea that we should focus on nanothermite as the smoking gun to 9/11 is a sick joke played out by the perps and the truther community bought it hook, line and sinker. Some people will forever be sheeple, no matter what group they're aligned with.
g
On Oct 24, 2011, at 11:58 PM, Michael wrote:
So then what? do you not care? Do you not want to have an answer for those that you are trying to wake up to the lie?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: Greg
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 00:04:32 -0500
To: < Michael>
Cc: houston truth
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
NANOTHERMITE as the smoking gun is a total red herring / hoax. Why does not buying into the hype about that have to mean I don't care about what brought the towers down?
I'd rather show or tell people about Building 7 coming down than try to explain how some incendiary the military makes is to blame for destruction of the towers.
Why does it have to be one way or the other? Either nanotherimite BS story or buy into the official report?
On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 12:21 AM, wrote:
It doesn't... I was just having a discussion to see where your researched/leader of the 911 Truth group, head was at regarding the subject.
I wonder why nanothermite would be introduced as a red herring if in reality there was just some other kind of explosive used, any thoughts on that specifically?
How about super weapons?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Oct 24, 2011, at 11:52 PM, Greg wrote:
"For me, it is important I remain open-minded about the details of what brought down the towers, put a hole in the pentagon and a crater in Pennsylvania field. "
Agreed!! That is the most important part.
I no doubt am very opinionated, but I do my best to stay open-minded. I always love to be proven wrong and never get more excited about reading or watching something that I've been told will do just that.
I. LOVE. THAT. CLIP. lolol to the bank! Ah man! And when asked again as to get clarification er you didn't mean to say jooooooooooooooooooooooooooos run things...did you? lol no zionist jews...lol. Anyways, too many lol's already. But that is a great clip. " What would you say if somebody said that about your race" " You better say something if they were trying to destroy the country!" ...lol...couldn't resist
In my opinion, she didn't get fired. She got promoted.
Anyways, about the 9-11 to be or not to be. First off, let me say this. I am a layman aka idiot on the science of this stuff. I rely on a lot of my basic instinct and common knowledge with this topic. I was suspicious of what I saw 9.11.01. I remember thinking while watching the tv..."something doesn't look right. Is that building warping?" As in inhaling and exhaling. When I had that thought, I began to question what I was seeing despite the hysterics and the magnitude of the current situation. Afterall, what I was seeing was on TV. But it wasn't until some years later that I began to seriously question the official 9.11 conspiracy. What I think brought down the twin towers? I can't say for certain but I am pretty sure it wasn't two planes. Govt theory: two planes brought down two 100+ floors buildings and a third building with 47 or so floors at free fall speed. Horse shit.
I do not discount super weapons or any reasonable possibility. I am sure the government have instruments within its possession that many of us could never imagine. For me, it is important I remain open-minded about the details of what brought down the towers, put a hole in the pentagon and a crater in Pennsylvania field.
On Oct 25, 2011, at 7:06 PM, J.T. Waldron wrote:
Past statements:
"Nanothermite sure as ____ didn't bring the towers down. That I do know. I assume it could have been used on columns to help cut the steel, but it didn't cause the squibs I've seen ejecting from the towers and didn't turn all of that concrete and steel into dust. The idea that we should focus on nanothermite as the smoking gun to 9/11 is a sick joke played out by the perps and the truther community bought it hook, line and sinker. Some people will forever be sheeple, no matter what group they're aligned with."
"I don't deny that nanothermite could have played a role in the destruction, but it definitely isn't the smoking gun to bring justice. "
Understanding how one turn of a phrase can get exploited ad nauseam, I'll attempt to eliminate confusion over one point about the nanothermate:
I previously said "Add this to attempting to denounce the only evidence indicating use of explosive material - Based on a presentation by Jim Fetzer."
In fact, there's all kinds of other evidence. Even with the push to weaken the video evidence, we still have video evidence, eye-witness testimony, iron droplets in the dust, beams with bolts removed, seismic data, steel beams with diagonal cuts from charges, melted/warped beams and a ton of additional circumstantial evidence.
While most appreciate what scientists and experts bring through the use of their time and lab materials for research, alert people really don't need them. The three buildings' demolitions could be intuited by a mere child playing with building blocks.
That said, once a great amount of lab work and research yields something that is verified as a remaining trace material in the WTC dust, pay close attention to those who will try to dismiss it.
Also mentioned previously: There's never an attempt to deny the existence of other explosives, so mutual exclusivity (between nanothermate and other explosives) seems to be implied only by those arguing against thermate (usually by calling it thermite).
J.T.
On Oct 25, 2011, at 5:27 PM, Greg wrote:
"Based on a presentation by Jim Fetzer." -- Correction. It was by Mark Hightower – not Fetzer. And again you attack a messenger instead of the evidence, or lack-thereof.
"Only evidence indicating use of explosive material." There you go using "only" when there are in fact many signs that explosives were used.
"... seems to be implied only by those arguing against thermate (usually by calling it thermite). " -- Dude... There is thermite and thermate, but what we are referring to is nano-thermite, not nanothermate. You are terribly confused about a lot of things, J.T.
I could go on, but to respond to either of your last two e-mails that contained nothing but gibberish is really a waste of time for all of us. The e-mail before this one of yours was especially confusing.
"Pay close attention" to me everyone. I don't buy into mainstream truth movement so I therefore must be a threat to peace. :P
greg
On Oct 25, 2011, at 8:21 PM, J.T. Waldron wrote:
The presentation that was given by Fetzer took place here in Portland. It's what prompted the leader here to declare something to the effect of "thermite is bogus". So that's how I arrived at saying, "based on a presentation by Jim Fetzer", because it was based on the presentation by Jim Fetzer.
My source:
The Dark Implications of Nanothermate in WTC Dust - Unlikely Heroes Explain
One email previously indicated that, "The only evidence indicating use of explosive material" is inaccurate and went on to list additional evidence. It's interesting to see the choice to use the phrase that has already been dealt with, especially after the discrepancy was pointed out by the person you are addressing.
I've been looking at previous findings of sulfur in the dust and other articles referring to nanothermate, but the most important aspect to the "nano" properties is its explosive nature - demonstrated in Toronto on on the 10th anniversary on 9/11.
If there is anything else you have trouble understanding, tell me what it is specifically. I'll let you know if it happens to be a mistake. The "gibberish" thing just isn't cutting it.
Still looking for a response about abandoning an authentic criminal investigation and due process...
J.T.
From: Greg from Houston
To: J.T. Waldron
Cc:Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance and various individuals
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
I guess J.T. only speaks one language, gibberish, so I am finished trying to communicate with him for that reason.
J.T. - Have fun on your continuing attempts to stifle real discussion and keep everyone focused only on what the 9/11 truth gods tell us to talk about. I don't know for sure, but I have a strong feeling you don't like the Israel topic either. I'd ask you, but since I'm through communicating after this e-mail I'll be content assuming and will place my bets if the option arises.
The key to exposing 9/11 is to say nano-thermite three times as you tap your heels together. You can say nano-thermate if you prefer, J.T. I won't tell. ;)
Nano-thermite nano-thermite nano-thermite. There. All better. :)
greg
From: Greg from Houston
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
Date: November 15, 2011 12:02:03 AM PST
To: J.T. Waldron, Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance and various individuals
Wait until the Pope gets his One World Currency (Government and Religion, too!) Fired, how about a good old Inquisition? The Jesuits control the central banks already. You ain't seen nothing yet! Rule by black Mass pedophiles.
Here's something recent by Dr Fetzer on nonothermate (intentional mispelling). Unlike Kevin Barret, Stephen Jones was fired for being a slack professor. Dr Jones also submarined cold fusion research. Question authority, especially when it pretends to be on your side. Also, the Toronto conference coincided with a Montreal conference by Globalresearch.ca. A close analysis of the collpse videos of WTC7 reveals they are fake! Notice the black lines around the perimeter of the building?
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/27/nanothermite-if-it-doesnt-fit-you-must-acquit/comment-page-1/#comment-290658
Nanothermite: If It Doesn’t Fit, You Must Acquit!
11
T. Mark Hightower (with Jim Fetzer)
Those who remember the 1995 O.J. Simpson trial will recall the gloves that turned out to be “too small” for O.J.’s hands when the long-awaited day of trying them on in the courtroom finally arrived. The blood-soaked gloves (one found at the crime scene and the other found outside O.J.’s house in Brentwood the morning after his former wife was murdered) were gloated over as “hard evidence” by the prosecution and the media, which is very comparable to how the discovery of unignited nanothermite chips in the WTC dust is considered to be “hard evidence” of the explosive demolition of the Twin Towers on September 11th, 2001.
Although some have expressed skepticism about what is often called the “smoking gun” of 9/11, the great majority of 9/11 Truthers have accepted – and many have celebrated – this discovery, confident that it will lead to “a new, independent investigation” of the event and bring the perpetrators to justice. But precisely how did the resulting “nanothermite theory” of destruction of the Twin Towers come about – and how well does it stand up to critical scrutiny?
Why Nanothermite?
Observations by first responders of apparent molten metal – thought to be molten iron – could be explained by thermite reactions, which, in turn, could possibly explain the severing of steel columns through a process of melting. However, the explosive effects observed in the destruction call for some further explanation. Nanothermite has been identified as a candidate, being faster-reacting and alleged to be “an explosive form” of thermite.
In a paper titled “Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Completely Collapse?” (2006), physicist Dr. Steven E. Jones cited thermite to explain the molten metal and first started raising the possibility that nanothermite could explain the additional explosive effects observed. Then four dust samples collected in the aftermath of the towers’ collapse by different individuals were sent to Dr. Jones, and upon testing, they were found to contain unreacted red chips of a nanothermitic material.
Those results were reported in a later paper titled “Active Thermitic Material Discovered in the Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe” by Niels Harrit, et al. (April, 2009), and because of this many assumed that nanothermite had been definitively identified as the prime candidate destructive agent. The paper, said to have been peer-reviewed, came out in the Open Chemical Physics Journal (Bentham Science Publishers), causing 9/11 Truthers to run with the news that explosive nanothermite blew up the Twin Towers, proclaiming what soon became a form of gospel in the 9/11 community. The Gospel of Nanothermite has given the incendiary properties of thermite a set of new miraculous powers: in its nano-state it becomes “Super Thermite” – a high-explosive that pulverized hundreds of thousands of tons of building materials in no more than 10 seconds.
A Literature Search
A scientific person, or one who prefers to use logic, might wonder about such claims and proceed by examining the scientific literature on nanothermite as well as the principle of how explosives achieve destructive force through generating shock waves that produce fragmentation. This might be a good time to note that the Rock Creek Free Press made a very important point in its May 2009 article on nanothermite: “To be a high explosive, the reaction speed must exceed the speed of sound in the material, which is unlikely in the case of thermitic materials, but nano-thermitic material may act as a low explosive in a manner similar to gunpowder.”
Few who have carefully watched video footage of the Twin Towers coming down could fail to notice what might appropriately be called “explosive effects” in the nature of the destruction. The question then would be: Were conventional explosives or some other kind of destructive energy source employed? If nanothermite is indeed a high explosive, then was it also necessary to use conventional explosives to achieve the demolition of the towers? The more sophisticated believer might agree that conventional explosives also could have been employed, but for the scientifically less sophisticated 9/11 Truther, the “Thermite/Nanothermite Gospel” says it all – and has been “conclusively proven” by the nine authors of the 2009 published and peer-reviewed paper.
But what does other peer-reviewed scientific literature actually have to say about nanothermite? “Nanoscale Aluminum-Metal Oxide (Thermite) Reactions for Application in Energetic Materials,” Central European Journal of Energetic Materials (2010), authored by Davin G. Piercey and Thomas M. Klapötke, identifies the fastest known combustion velocity for a mixture of metal oxide and aluminum: 2,400 meters per second (m/s), in a type of nanothermite made of copper oxide and aluminum. Remember that what Steven Jones found in the dust was iron-oxide/aluminum nanothermite. The authors of this paper make it clear that copper-oxide/aluminum nanothermite is significantly more reactive than the iron-oxide version, and cite a combustion velocity of 895 m/s for an iron-oxide/aluminum nanothermite aerogel. So 895 m/s is the highest velocity yet to be found for an iron-oxide/aluminum nanothermite in the scientific literature, where this velocity is far too low to have played a significant role in the destruction of the Twin Towers by means of its shock waves.
Not Powerful Enough
Let’s examine the reason for that important last statement. The “destructive fragmentation effect” of an explosive is its detonation velocity, or the speed of the shock wave through the substance it is traveling in. To significantly fragment a substance, the detonation velocity of the explosive must equal or exceed the sonic velocity (the speed of sound) in the material. For example, the speed of sound in concrete is 3,200 m/s. In steel, the speed of sound is 6,100 m/s. Conventional high explosives such as TNT and RDX have detonation velocities of 6,900 and 8,750 m/s respectively, and are therefore capable of fragmenting concrete and steel, because both 6,900 and 8,750 exceed the sonic velocities of 3,200 m/s required to shatter concrete and 6,100 m/s required to shatter steel. As Dwain Deets has diagrammed, at only 895 m/s, iron-oxide/aluminum nanothermite does not come close to TNT and RDX.
However, prominent 9/11 researchers have nonetheless termed nanothermite to be a powerful explosive. The very highly respected David Ray Griffin, Ph.D. calls nanothermite a “high explosive” in his July 6, 2010 article entitled “Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?”, which was published in the online journal, Global Research. “High explosives, such as RDX or nanothermite,” wrote Griffin, “could explain these horizontal ejections.”
Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, the most revered of 9/11 research groups, published a piece called “Exotic High Tech Explosives Positively Identified in World Trade Center Dust” on April 5, 2009. In this they stated, “Ordinary thermite burns quickly and can melt through steel, but it is not explosive. Nanothermite, however, can be formulated as a high explosive.”
A “Secret” Technology?
While searching the open scientific literature on nanothermite and establishing the low detonation velocity of its iron-oxide/aluminum variety, chemical engineer T. Mark Hightower has been in contact and shared his findings with Dr. Steven Jones and the authors of the highly regarded April 2009 nanothermite paper, as well as with several other well-known 9/11 Truth leaders. The most recent responses to his challenges fall into two general categories. One response is that the combustion velocity of 895 m/s is enough to explain the Twin Towers’ destruction. The other is the rather persistent claim that nanothermite can indeed be a high explosive, where this formulation is a military secret that is not discussed in the open literature.
Alright. It is true that military explosives’ research employs nanotechnology and that applications involving nanothermite are a subset of this research. (The military even connects nanotechnology with mini-nukes, stating that a mini-nuke device the size of a suitcase could destroy an entire building.) But to suggest that the American military has a “secret recipe” that converts iron-oxide/aluminum nanothermite into a high explosive when this claim is contradicted by the open literature doesn’t make any sense.
Easily found in the open literature is that copper-oxide/aluminum nanothermite can have a combustion velocity of 2,400 m/s, compared to 895 m/s for an iron-oxide/aluminum nanothermite. If the 2,400 m/s number is not a military secret, why would a velocity greater than 895 m/s (for the iron-oxide variety of nanothermite) have to be kept secret? It is far more likely that the highest reported value of 895 m/s is due to physical property limitations of iron-oxide/aluminum nanothermite rather than a need to keep higher values secret.
“Combined” with Explosives?
Additionally – just to be safe, perhaps – 9/11 nanothermite advocates also maintain the fall-back position that, even if nanothermite by itself is not a high explosive, when combined with an organic substance (also asserted to not be itself a high explosive), a high-explosive is created. To that T. Mark Hightower responds: “There is only one sure way to make nanothermite a high explosive. If you combine enough high explosives with nanothermite, you can get a mixture that is a high explosive. But the same can be said for my breakfast cereal.”
Hightower has further calculated that if conventional explosives (such as TNT or RDX) acting alone were used to bring down the Twin Towers, the quantity necessary would have been hundreds of tons of explosives per tower. On July 27, 2011, Niels Harrit (chief author of the 2009 nanothermite paper) presented a calculation for how much thermitic material would have been necessary to explain the presence of the many tiny iron-rich spheres in the dust (assuming that a thermite reaction was the source of the spheres).
He gave a range of numbers, based on lower and higher concentrations of the thermite formulation. His lowest figure amounted to 29,000 metric tons of thermitic explosive per tower – a value hundreds of times greater than the calculation for conventional explosives. His “conservative” estimate (based on 10% iron-oxide in the thermitic material) was 143,000 metric tons of thermitic material that would have been placed in each tower. But let’s be realistic: How could the perpetrators drag in and plant over 100,000 tons of explosive without being seen? Even 29,000 tons is hard to imagine and would have been rather difficult to put in place unnoticed.
The Missing Element
A side note from the many technical papers on nanothermite studied by Hightower: nanothermite produces a blinding flash of light when it goes off. If such immense quantities of nanothermite were used to blow up the Twin Towers, then why didn’t we see tremendous bursts of blinding light all over those two buildings as they were destroyed and largely converted into millions of cubic yards of very fine dust?
The Dangers of a False Theory
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, which is led by Richard Gage, has been ceaselessly promoting the nanothermite discovery as the “smoking gun” of 9/11, and calling the substance a “high explosive”. If there is ever a proper investigation and a lawsuit is filed in a court of law on the “strength” of nanothermite as “hard evidence” of controlled demolition by explosives at the World Trade Center and it is revealed to the court by the opposing side that nanothermite is at best a very weak “explosive” and could not possibly have destroyed the Twin Towers in seconds, the entire case would almost certainly be dismissed and a legal precedent set against future efforts by others.
The danger of promoting a false theory or of overselling a weak hypothesis to millions of people is that it may someday be a convenient way to close the book on the entire issue. That 9/11 nanothermite advocates insist on their position in the face of significant refutations is disturbing. They are clearly unwilling to change their minds or even to discuss facts that expose weaknesses in their statements. What do these refusals really mean? Are some leaders deliberately pushing a flimsy theory with the intent that it will ultimately be shot down? Or is nanothermite a red herring or limited hangout to keep us from looking into what was really used?
The 9/11 Truth community can be confident in its refutations of the official account of 9/11 without having to present a “bullet-proof” alternate theory. It may well be that thermite/thermate/nanothermite was used in its familiar role as an incendiary (or “cutter charge”) in destroying the Twin Towers. But that is very different than to claim that it is a “high explosive” that could have destroyed those buildings. The 9/11 Truth movement must not commit itself to a feeble alternative, especially when an honest assessment of the empirical data for that theory does not support its applicability and actually refutes it.
From: JT
To: Greg from Houston Cc: Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance and Various other individuals
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
"Stephen Jones was fired for being a slack professor. Dr Jones also submarined cold fusion research. Question authority, especially when it pretends to be on your side."
I wouldn't care if Steven Jones was caught masturbating in his office. What matters is his work concerning this subject. It's worth scrutinizing, however, vague attempts to smear the reputation of the messenger.
"A close analysis of the collpse videos of WTC7 reveals they are fake! Notice the black lines around the perimeter of the building?"
Of course. It's another important piece of evidence. The establishment has nowhere to go with this video footage of WTC7's collapse, so it must be impugned by people within the 9/11 Truth movement. Lovely PR.
T. Mark Hightower starts out with a bad metaphor:
"Those who remember the 1995 O.J. Simpson trial will recall the gloves that turned out to be “too small” for O.J.’s hands when the long-awaited day of trying them on in the courtroom finally arrived. The blood-soaked gloves (one found at the crime scene and the other found outside O.J.’s house in Brentwood the morning after his former wife was murdered) were gloated over as “hard evidence” by the prosecution and the media, which is very comparable to how the discovery of unignited nanothermite chips in the WTC dust is considered to be “hard evidence” of the explosive demolition of the Twin Towers on September 11th, 2001."
A fair question would be, "would a litigator include the evidence of remaining explosive residues in the dust as evidence of a controlled demolition?"
Of course.
Even if it does not complete the picture of everything used to achieve a controlled demolition?
Of course. The bi-product of the substance found in the dust are droplets of molten iron found in all dust samples and confirmed by three different sources.
The idea of comparing the gloves to the dust samples is pretty dumb.
The relevance to their respective cases are different and the dust samples need merely to be added to the body of evidence as useful to the case for controlled demolition. The idea that "if thermitic material is not the only explosive, then you must dismiss it as evidence" is absolute bullshit.
In addition, the blood-soaked gloves in the O.J. Simpson case represents one of a small pool of evidence available at the crime scene. A crime scene that incorporated the most sophisticated, most expensive forensic lab work available hours after the crime was committed. The 9/11 crime scene immediately begun shipping key evidence off of the premises in New York and there was no immediate forensic evaluation even when it was normal protocol to do so. If the opportunity to test for explosives was taken, then time-sensitive residues may have provided a bigger picture of the types of explosives used.
Despite the differences in these cases, the amount of evidence pointing to an inside job for 9/11 far surpasses the amount of evidence available at the time to convict O.J. That's why the focus has turned towards denouncing other important pieces of evidence like videos of WTC7's collapse.
"The more sophisticated believer might agree that conventional explosives also could have been employed, but for the scientifically less sophisticated 9/11 Truther, the “Thermite/Nanothermite Gospel” says it all – and has been “conclusively proven” by the nine authors of the 2009 published and peer-reviewed paper."
I don't really need to be advised about what a "sophisticated 9/11 Truther" might believe. I'm more interested in sophisticated attempts to denounce the one detectible explosive substance in the in the WTC dust. Most importantly, who is pushing it.
Love the fact Hightower makes the point of accommodating those who believe there were other explosives, then continues to condemn the "less sophisticated 9/11 Truther" as someone who will only believe that nanothermite is the sole explosive. There lies the offense of the scientists pointing out what they detected in the dust!
"A side note from the many technical papers on nanothermite studied by Hightower: nanothermite produces a blinding flash of light when it goes off. If such immense quantities of nanothermite were used to blow up the Twin Towers, then why didn’t we see tremendous bursts of blinding light all over those two buildings as they were destroyed and largely converted into millions of cubic yards of very fine dust?"
It's called opacity. Like walls that cover what we see inside the buildings.
The rest of the details in Hightower's article (accept for the laughable, tenuous connection to mini-nukes) are handily obliterated with this video by Jonathan Cole:
Jonathan Cole - 9/11: Thermate Debate - AE911Truth.org
http://youtu.be/Qamecech9m4
Still looking for a response about abandoning an authentic criminal investigation and due process...
J.T.
From: Michael
Subject: [Portland911Truth] Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
Date: November 15, 2011 11:39:09 PM PST
To all new members and those of you who have been following this bickering that I have asked to please CEASE, IMMEDIATELY, DO NOT be conned by some of the authors of this email chain who have their entire being and petty ego's wrapped up in their theory of what MAY have happened on 9/11 that brought the towers down in a controlled demolition fashion.
This is a tactic used to confuse and annoy you to the point that you lose interest in the entire subject.
The debate is centered around the most confusing aspects of the 9/11 fraud to get you to focus on that rather than the BLATANT FABRICATIONS AND LIES SUCH AS THE PENTAGON AND SHANKSVILLE, PA "CRASHES", the 9/11 comission report/garbage, just to name a few.
I've said this MANY times.... none of us know until we OCCUPY THE PENTAGON AND DC. The methods used in the demolition of the 3 towers is worth debating, obviously, but the tone in which some use to do it is unacceptable and will no longer be tolerated. From this point on, a comment that is made that has the slightest bit of disrespect, will flag that member for removal from the group. This group and society as a whole is coming together against the federal corruption and injustices that are taking place all over the world and this group will be a part of that.
I want someone who thinks that a REAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION into the lies of 9/11, to tell me how it will actually come about? REALLY!!! It's about as far-fetched as occupying DC but not out of the question. Presently, the universal tide is shifting in favor of humanity and light. WE MUST STAY UNITED! You are allowed to disagree but realize that YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED EITHER ON 9/11, SO GET OVER YOURSELF AND YOUR THEORY, BECAUSE THAT'S ALL IT IS AT THIS POINT! If you disagree with my previous statement, then just leave the group because you are ignorant and nobody wants you around keeping us and humanity from reaching higher levels of consciousness, which is what the TRUTH movement is really all about.
Things never change until the whole world rises up and reaches higher, which is happening now! Be a part of it. If you are passionate about 9/11 TRUTH, then wake people up to the ridiculous lies they have been told and admit to them that you don't have ALL OF THE ANSWERS, but you know WHAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, AS WELL AS WHAT SHOULD'VE HAPPENED ON 9/11 SUCH AS NORAD, BUT DIDN'T or the DANCING ISRAELI'S, THE HUGE ISRAELI SPY NETWORK, ETC.... And at the very least, get people to stop being so gullible and start questioning the media and authority. Sheeple don't wake up over night. Plant a seed and move on! And for God sake, become more aware of your own actions, communication and realize if you may be contributing to the divide and conquer strategy.
Please respond with tact if you feel the need to,
Michael Sullivan, founder of Portland 9/11 Truth on meetup.com
www.REDISCOVER911.com
On Nov 17, 2011, at 12:35 AM, Greg wrote:
Good points, Michael. If a new "investigation" were to hinge on nano-thermite, then all it would take to discredit us would be for the demolition contractor to say they used the stuff to clean up the debris! It is a great cutting agent for steel. Also, the article showed that nano-thermite has less explosive force than conventional demolition explosives. Just because someone acts like they are on your side, doesn't mean they are. That's how I got swindled out of my inheritances by my family.
Getting through to the dolts with their head in the sand about 9/11 is the hard part. That takes a min-nuke, LOL. Good luck to everyone and thanks for trying.
From: "J.T. Waldron"
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:34:18 -0800
To:
Cc: sullivan michael; houston truth; Greg; reno gamble; ; ; ; ; ; ; ed al ge; ; ; oregontt
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
"If a new "investigation" were to hinge on nano-thermite, then all it would take to discredit us would be for the demolition contractor to say they used the stuff to clean up the debris!"
O.K. Michael. Your turn. This time it is up to you to explain why this scenario wouldn't go down the way your buddy in Houston suggests. While you are at it, find out why he's using the term "hinged" when nothing of the sort was implied.
You bought the Meetup leadership mantle as you declare at the end of your last temper tantrum.
Let's see it.
J.T.
From: Michael
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
Date: November 17, 2011 10:03:33 AM PST
To: jt@soundandfury.tv
Reply-To: Michael
Poor JT. You just don't get it, do you? Or you are a complete agent, either way, I wish you a lot of luck in your journey. I want you to realize that it was nothing like a tempur tantrum, it was meant to be enlightening. If not an agent, you are PRECISELY the type I was writing about. As for "my buddy" in Houston, not sure who you are eluding to exactly, but when others present their theories, they do so in a logical, humble way... Like I said, they are THEORIES. None of us know, we must stay united. I'm sick of the negativity and the petty ego's in society, which includes the Truth movement. How's that for "my turn?"
Please just leave the group JT, don't make me make me go through the blocking you process. Good luck and remember that its a spiritual journey.
Michael
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: jt@soundandfury.tv
Subject: [Portland911Truth] Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
Date: November 17, 2011 11:42:10 AM PST
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
The thread speaks for itself. You either have an answer or you don't.
J.T.
From: info@meetup.com
Subject: You've been removed from Portland 9/11 Truth
Date: November 17, 2011 10:33:42 PM PST
To: jt@soundandfury.tv
Reply-To: healthywealthy13@yahoo.com
You have been removed from Portland 9/11 Truth.
There are over 93,123 groups on Meetup with 1,048 groups near
Portland. You can join another Meetup Group and meet up with
real people who share your interests.
* Click here to see the 1,048 groups near Portland:
http://www.meetup.com/cities/us/or/portland/
Best regards,
The Team at Meetup HQ
While I lack the meticulous, accurate recollections that Jeffrey Strahl wielded while taking down the avid 9/11 apologists of "Screw Loose Change', I did discover that Portland 9/11Truth's Meetup moderator might as well be working for Homeland Security.
Some peripheral exchanges might be missing from this discussion. Once observing member Brad's removal from the email forum, curiosity took over. Would this Meetup leader ban people for arguing on behalf of the best science behind 9/11 truth? If you have the intestinal fortitude to sit through another inane thread, watch what happens in the name of "keeping the conversation civil".
Meetup Group: Portland 9/11 Truth (Note: This is not the other 9/11 truth group called "Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance" which has its leaders putting forth the notion that no planes hit the Twin Towers)
Meetup Moderator: Michael Sullivan (Referred to as Michael)
On Sep 10, 2011, at 1:14 PM, Michael wrote:
I won't be able to make this one. Jim Fetzer lecture yesterday was great. More and more it looks like super weapons like direct energy technology! Nano-thermite is bogus and meant to misdirect us based on science and burn points. Just something to stay open to. We don't need to spend so much time on proving what it really was to the unawakened masses, as much as proving the "official" 9/11 commission fable as false. This will inspire THINKING! Something that we all recognize is missing from our society to some degree.
I do feel like we are winning though! More and more, people are seeing what's happening and know that its just not right. To Obama (Sateoro) what ever his real name is, thanks for being a con and deceiver, it has helped to wake up even more people.
I encourage you all to buy merchandise: bumper sticker, shirts, etc... Buy some car window paint and paint something like I have, "youtube: Dancing Israeli's". These things reach people!
Enjoy your weekend!
Michael
From: "J.T. Waldron"
Sender: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 18:08:15 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
Misdirection?
Was nanothermite/thermate found in various dust samples from different sources? Was it not analyzed as such?
Does that not constitute evidence of the use of thermate as one of the explosive materials?
Seems to me like there is an attempt to remove attention from what is provable back to what is not provable.
The excuse for this diversion? "We must keep an open mind". Hmmm.
Suspiciously Yours,
J.T. Waldron
On Sep 10, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Michael wrote:
Nope. No intentions to divert anyone. Research and go with what ever theories you want. There's different theories and info for whatever hypothesis. Was just basing it off of the speaker and scholars for 9/11 Truth founder's research who has confronted those who claim it was nano-thermite such as Steven Jones, with the evidence to discredit the nano-thermite theory and it seems there was less than a willing discussion on their part.
Either way, say it was this theory or that... Where are we? We may never agree on that, but we can all agree that we were/are being lied to about what happened on 9/11 and we all need to stay united to fight against that.
I was just making the point that since none of us know what REALLY happened in the demolition of the towers, the pentagon, and Pennsylvania, we DO know what didn't happen and that we are being lied to.
In my personal opinion, the best method for waking others up is to just get them to start asking questions for themselves. They'll ask you, "well, what really happened?" And you'll say nano-thermite, they'll come back and say here's evidence that nano-thermite does not heat up, this or that, impossible... Then you're discredited and so is the Truth movement. Therefore, sticking w things that are obvious lies is more beneficial to our cause in waking people up to lies.
And I'm sure nano-thermite particles were found there but so was airplane wreckage at the Pentagon, could be planted to misdirect from the real weapons/demolition equipment, don't you think? Don't discount directed energy, outer space laser type equipment. There's stuff we don't even know about out there.
Suspicious of the government and your friend in Truth, Justice, and Peace,
Michael
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: "J.T. Waldron"
Sender: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 19:57:56 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
They can say "there's evidence that nano-thermite does not heat up" but they don't have the evidence.
Conversely, all the evidence you need to underly the destructive nature of the explosive materials actually found in the dust was just presented in Toronto by David Chandler and Jon Cole hours ago.
The strongest hand to play is the one with actual evidence. Your "strawman argument", which you are implying as the nano-thermite discovery, is the most difficult one for the establishment to refute.
Other cards brought in merely for the sake of argument are aimed at diverting attention from the details backed by actual evidence.
If it wasn't so sad, I'd almost get a chuckle from the idea of people actually bantering about the notion that "nanothermate is bogus".
Who needs COINTELPRO when you got so many willing to facilitate diversionary tactics?
Concerning the chain of custody of the WTC dust, I've seen no credible accounts that undermine the authenticity of the dust samples. The establishment has made no progress refuting the chain of custody of the dust samples. I suppose one could assume that it's in the name of rigorous science that such scrutiny is practiced while carrying water for Judy Woods and James Fetzer. Seems to me a bit naive to assume it's out of some sort of scientific discipline.
I have no problem entertaining ideas that pass the initial smell test, but I also believe focus can be a friend.
J.T.
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Michael wrote:
Like I said, we could debate it all day but where are we JT? We were lied to and us uncovering the tools used to pull it off is important but I see so many get caught up in it and start calling others out to be COINTELPRO and other derragatory
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:51 AM, BRAD wrote:
I hate to but in here after missing the lecture but space lasers and directed energy weapons cutting the core columns at 45% angles into 30 foot lengths? come on brother. I know how cointell works and judy wood is for sure cointell. And a complete pathetic witch. Anyone with a high school education promoting space beams is an obvious narc. watch judy wood unscripted and tell me who the liar from Blacksburg VA is.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJZrj0leylc&feature=related It is really worth watching all three parts. without a script these demons fall apart. It is so illogical basically every arguement that they make. Remember how video fakery jumps into no planes? how are those two related? go read some of the cointell sites and notice the patterns. they attack fetzer for his no 757 at the pentagon theory where he is telling the truth but they fail to mention anything about the ridiculous space beams and directed energy theories he gets paid to promote. the attempt is to divide the movement into different camps all having some factual and much disinformation. Nanothermite is provable and was used to cut the columns. Obviously additional explosives were used before,during and to initialize the collapse any cursory viewing of the collapse demonstrates that.
Michael I don't thing you can debate it all day, in fact I don't thing space beams can be debated at all with the laws of physics intact. It is a diversionary tactic nothing more. I am curious who decided to have James Fetzer come and speak anyway?
From: brad
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
In response to Joel's suggestion, scalar weapons do exsist but they dont pick and choose what to effect and what not to. They do not account for precision 45% cuts in the columns at 30 ft. lengths. The "renovations for two weeks before the attacks do however account for that along with the nanothermite that was used on the columns. -b
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Joel wrote:
I think there are very few people, including myself, who understand the physics of scalar/energy beam weaponry. Most people need experts who can adequately explain all this (jargon). Take a look at the other side of the interview between Dr. Judy Wood and Dr. Greg Jenkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpLbzLzY9HY&feature=related
It's not that she's a witch, is it? I don't think so. What kind of witch and in what respects--and how is being a "witch" even relevant? She's more of a scientist, especially in this context than a witch. I doubt she's even a witch.
From: brad
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
how is taking bits of an interview and adding a dialouge to skew it into something that it wasn't "the other side of the interview" as opposed to an unedited one where the viewer himself can judge the mood of the interview? What scientific or factual evidence do you have that there was scalar weapons used? how did the scalar weapons project into the core of the building and cut the columns at 45% angles without damaging the outside of the building or the steel next to the cuts? Sure godzilla could have cut a deal with papa smurf to have aliens assist him in destroying the twin towers but why grasp at some stupid hypotheticals when there is actual evidence in front of your face unless you are a fed trying to distract people from reality or a total dupe?
From: Joel
Sender: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:21:26 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
Here's the evidence: http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=93433
From: brad
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
Are you for real?
From: joel
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
Date: September 19, 2011 1:47:46 PM PDT
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
I'm a physical person aware of a soul, not a computer-generated/artificial intelligence machine, slave. What are you?
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Michael wrote:
In regards to what?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: brad moss
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
Sorry Michael i meant that towards the blog that joel linked to as "the evidence." I am not trying to argue or bicker or call names or accuse people of being disingenuous, I genuinely wonder if you guys are playing games with me? You tell me that this meetup is not about reptoids and flying saucers but the blog Joel suggested as evidence was simply someone providing hearsay endorsements of known operatives who blame 911 on israel and are deeply involved with the ufo cult. Well its not a cult it is more like chinese theatre done worse. The disclosure project and all of that are military intelligence operatives. Its religion for people who don't believe in religion. And Morgan Reynolds? That guy was a known sheister way back when i used to actually follow 911 truth and that was many years ago. All of that stuff is obvious disinfo to even moderately retarded people. I just joined and I'm wondering if this is some type of hazing the new guy or is this the general dialogue of portland 911 truth? When I said a while back that anyone promoting those theories was a fed I was refering to the people on you tube and presenting at symposiums not any of you who I haven't met and happen to have fallen for this stuff. Having a dialogue about it is the only way to let someone know they have been conned. I don't see it as infighting. I just don't see how hearsay rumors of secret unprovable isreali weapons is evidence or how it should share the stage with the new film from AE 911 truth
9/11: Explosive Evidence — Experts Speak Out
If you really want to do something about 911 then get a copy of that film, make copies, pick neighborhoods and put one on every door. that's what I'm going to do here. I haven't seen the film yet I have only heard the audio but not many people will be able to watch it and ignore the arguments presented. No need to even worry about the Israelis.
From: J.T. Waldron
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
One of the most important advances of the 9/11 Truth movement was the break between James Fetzer and Steven Jones.
In the Fall of 2006, Fetzer spoke at the Rialto Theatre in Tucson. While a good chunk of the lecture was devoted to the solid stuff, he started slipping in the Judy Wood's "exotic weaponry" argument. He was representing Scholars for 9/11 Truth at this time and Steven Jones was a co-founder. Somebody inside the audience recorded footage of the lecture and uploaded it to Youtube. Due to the weak scientific basis for exotic weaponry, Steven Jones responded immediately by withdrawing his participation in "Scholars for 9/11 Truth" and formed his own organization, "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice".
This was one of the most significant advances for the science involving 9/11 Truth. What emerged from "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice" is research that is far more credible than what existed prior to this event in 2006. Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth began to grow an lend their expertise to this subject as well. Now we have a peer-reviewed study of explosives found in the dust particles and a clearer picture of how these materials contributed to the destruction of the buildings.
Not without a fight, of course. Fetzer has become so desperate over the rejection of the exotic weapons argument by other scientists, engineers and architects, he is now reduced to pushing the "no planes hit the towers" theory.
To help marginalize the 9/11 Truth movement, it's important for the least credible science to occupy the stage with the best evidence.
Why? Emphasis on the precise evidence for the demolitions of WTC I, II and 7 is the most dangerous threat to the establishment. It has NIST lying and every politician using Popular Mechanics and the 9/11 Commission report as their excuse for willful ignorance. It has the Royal Institute of British Architects screaming "anti-Semitism" when Architect Richard Gage makes no mention of Judaism in his presentation. It turns adults into crying wee babies and it leaves proponents of the official story with no where to go.
If bickering is setting light to those who would turn this sword of truth into a dull butter knife, so be it. We are now much better off for the similar shake-out that occurred in 2006.
J.T.
From: Michael
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: 911 Event
Houston members, please read below and comment if you'd like. Thx for the info JT. Perhaps using the word "bicker" was not appropriate. I should have said, we can debate, come up w facts about the demolitions but still, where will we be? We'll all still be on this side of their evil agenda. I'd like to unite and come up with ways in how we'll destroy their agenda. And for some reason, I can't figure out how this "how it happened" conversation is really going to get us to our common goal. Yes, we need the facts, why don't we all unite and figure out how we are going to get those facts/documents out of the pentagon ourselves! With the evidence in hand!
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Tim Harless wrote:
Hey Mike, Has anyone looked at this???Tim Harless
Subject: FW: What Does This Word Mean?Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 06:53:48 -0700
If all this is true, we are all in a world of hurt.
Snopes; mixed message.http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/exemptions.asp
It seems very important to pursue the exact definition of this word, which is employed in the controversial health care bill on page 107, but not easily found in any English or American dictionaries.
Dhimmitude -- What does it mean?
Obama used it in the health care bill.
Now isn't this interesting? It is used in the health care law.
Dhimmitude -- I had never heard the word until now. Type it into Google and start reading. Pretty interesting. It's on page 107 of the healthcare bill. I looked this up on Google and yep, it exists.. It is a REAL word.
Word of the Day: Dhimmitude
Dhimmitude is the Muslim system of controlling non-Muslim populations conquered through jihad. Specifically, it is the TAXING of non-Muslims in exchange for tolerating their presence AND as a coercive means of converting conquered remnants to Islam.
ObamaCare allows the establishment of Dhimmitude and Sharia Muslim diktat in the United States . Muslims are specifically exempted from the government mandate to purchase insurance, and also from the penalty tax for being uninsured. Islam considers insurance to be "gambling", "risk-taking", and "usury" and is thus banned. Muslims are specifically granted exemption based on this.
How convenient. So I, as a Christian, will have crippling IRS liens placed against all of my assets, including real estate, cattle, and even accounts receivables, and will face hard prison time because I refuse to buy insurance or pay the penalty tax. Meanwhile, Louis Farrakhan will have no such penalty and will have 100% of his health needs paid for by the de facto government insurance. Non-Muslims will be paying a tax to subsidize Muslims. This is Dhimmitude.
I recommend sending this onto your contacts. American citizens need to know about it --
From: brad
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] word truth
here is the text of page 107:
H. R. 3590—107
(3) ELIGIBILITY AND AMOUNT OF TAX CREDIT OR REDUCED
COST-SHARING.—In the case of an enrollee with respect to whom
a premium tax credit or reduced cost-sharing under section
36B of such Code or section 1402 is being claimed, the following
information:
(A) INFORMATION REGARDING INCOME AND FAMILY
SIZE.—The information described in section 6103(l)(21) for
the taxable year ending with or within the second calendar
year preceding the calendar year in which the plan year
begins.
(B) CHANGES IN CIRCUMSTANCES.—The information
described in section 1412(b)(2), including information with
respect to individuals who were not required to file an
income tax return for the taxable year described in
subparagraph (A) or individuals who experienced changes
in marital status or family size or significant reductions
in income.
(4) EMPLOYER-SPONSORED COVERAGE.—In the case of an
enrollee with respect to whom eligibility for a premium tax
credit under section 36B of such Code or cost-sharing reduction
under section 1402 is being established on the basis that the
enrollee’s (or related individual’s) employer is not treated under
section 36B(c)(2)(C) of such Code as providing minimum essential
coverage or affordable minimum essential coverage, the
following information:
(A) The name, address, and employer identification
number (if available) of the employer.
(B) Whether the enrollee or individual is a full-time
employee and whether the employer provides such minimum
essential coverage.
(C) If the employer provides such minimum essential
coverage, the lowest cost option for the enrollee’s or individual’s
enrollment status and the enrollee’s or individual’s
required contribution (within the meaning of section
5000A(e)(1)(B) of such Code) under the employer-sponsored
plan.
(D) If an enrollee claims an employer’s minimum essential
coverage is unaffordable, the information described
in paragraph (3).
If an enrollee changes employment or obtains additional
employment while enrolled in a qualified health plan for which
such credit or reduction is allowed, the enrollee shall notify
the Exchange of such change or additional employment and
provide the information described in this paragraph with
respect to the new employer.
(5) EXEMPTIONS FROM INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS.—
In the case of an individual who is seeking an exemption
certificate under section 1311(d)(4)(H) from any requirement
or penalty imposed by section 5000A, the following
information:
(A) In the case of an individual seeking exemption
based on the individual’s status as a member of an exempt
religious sect or division, as a member of a health care
sharing ministry, as an Indian, or as an individual eligible
for a hardship exemption, such information as the Secretary
shall prescribe.
Where does It say anything about Dhimmitude?
From: Michael
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] word truth
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 16:19:20 -0400
Tim, please reply to Brad's question when you have a sec. Where is that word, Dhimmitude?
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Tim wrote:
Jimmini:) where do people dream up this misinformation?????what a waste of energy and time:(
Tim
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM, BRAD wrote:
they want to keep people occupied...
On Sep 19, 2011, at 10:25 AM, brad wrote:
I joined the republican party(forgive me) in 07 to promote ron paul, so I get sent stuff like this all the time.
: joel
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
Date: September 19, 2011 1:36:50 PM PDT
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
It shows how deep the conspiracy is--how obvious truth can be confounded by problem-reaction-solution, turning something that could easily wake up the masses into just another distraction and energy-waster. People don't need 9/11 to wake up to the conspiracy right in front of your eyes every time you open your eyes.
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Joel wrote:
It's pretty naive to think Ron Paul is not an insider:
http://www.spirituallysmart.com/ron_paul.html
http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2008/04/22/ron-paul-and-freemasonry/
He's just another puppet. Assuming people actually elected Ron Paul, do you think The Fed would actually be abolished without some other type of similar control being placed on the people? It wouldn't be. Maybe it would be publicized that it would, but you have to go to one of the sources--the Rothschilds. You have to take them down. A name change doesn't change the underlying issue. It's like replacing Bank of America with Wells Fargo. It's also like bringing in a "conservative" to combat a "liberal" who can also say he can create lots of jobs but repeat lies and not bring out the truth of 9/11 and other things.
From: brad
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] word truth
Nice Joel, do you have any discernment at all? Every link you post it to some obvious disinfo site. Alex jones a vatican agent? ted gunderson and john decamp agents? conspiracy of silence fake? Ron paul an insider? where have you been the last four years? I know how insiders are treated and that is not ron paul. they are scared of ron paul and alex jones. I have plenty of complaints about alex jones but being a fed is not one of them. money grubbing?yep. lying about good deals from midas?yep. people on his show for money?yep. a fed? no. he has woken up more people than anyone on the planet. does he spend most of his show talking about himself yes. he has some shortcomings but the impact he has had on the planet is second to none.
and ron paul i have some reservations about on some subjects but promoting him is bad according to joel? wow! what should we do run around talking about space beams and reptillians? is that the solution? Is there any bullshit on the web that you haven't fallen for? why do you even believe that 911 was an inside job? oh wait you don't. you believe it was an attack by jews! lets see what is more supicious three mossad agents filming the demolition after isreal warned the us government before 911 that there was going to be an attack or the irs,cia,sec, office of emergency management all blown up in wtc 7, a missile or whatever killing the auditors at the pentagon, cheney ordering the stand down(with the us military changing its protocol for him to do so) 55 different 911 related drills in the previous two years before 911, the air force blowing up the plane in shanksville, and various us agencys covering up the whole thing for the last 10 years but it was all done by Israel dammit!! YOU FUCKING JEWS!!!! AAAGH! you must be a troll bradly you aren't blaming everything on the fucking jews!
What are you doing to take down the Rothschilds? I'm very curious..
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 1:51 PM, Joel
You're being ignorant of Israel, still.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/israel_9-11_index.html
From: brad
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
I would take the pepsi challenge on Israel any day of the week. I'm sorry but I wont click on a mike rivero link. I forced myself to listen to him for a couple years even after he was pushing obama, giving him the benefit of the doubt thinking he might be playing a role to speak truth to some leftys but no I believe now that he was playing a role as an agent. Now he says chemtrails are used for nothing more than military communication and will hang up on you if you try to talk about anything but hating jews. Apparently he knows all of the uses for nanoaluminum and depopulation is not one of them. I think russel blaylock would disagree. All the agents talk about is israel and almost every "ex-cia" agent had to push obama no matter the risk of exposure it seemed. that is a pretty blanket statement and i'm sure there are many exceptions but that is the way I perceived it at the time. Israel was created by the anglo oligarchy. It exists only because they own it, have use for it and plans for it. Do you think that operations like converse infosystems exist because of Israeli hegemony or because they play a spying role in collaboration with the, no rather in delegation from the us/british intelligence agencys? I'm not ignorant of Israel, I don't like Israel and when travelling I could even say there were a fair amount of Israelis that I didn't care for a whole lot,although some of them were really cool. I wouldnt say israel is above attacking the us but if it did so it would be on behest of the "rouge network" not because of some super weapon was shouldered by an eight foot Israelite. As far as I know thr uss liberty was an attack carried out by LBJ at the behest of ? whoever shot kennedy I guess. whoever wanted war w/Egypt. I understand that there are a lot of zionists and dual citizens in government but lets not attribute more power to them than they have.
From: Joel
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] word truth
I agree Alex Jones has made a great contribution in more than one way--but that still doesn't make me ignore the reality of the situation. He's still a puppet--there's no ignoring facts like he works for the Vatican/Zionism/Rothschilds--same with Ron Paul. Yes, they've done a lot more than other "leaders" or public figures, but that does not excuse them from criticism or the truth.
It's part of the solution to talk about space beams and reptilians and beings from other star systems and planets and in the underground and the truth about Paul and Jones and any other person you see with clouded eyes.
You keep saying that others say that Jews are the cause--and that's just not the case. You've bought into the grand "anti-Semitism" lies that the Zionists promote and use very effectively. The Rothschilds are reptilians/hybrids masquerading as Jews, then they use the Jew card to keep people ignorant of them, because you're too afraid to talk about the truth openly. You can't criticize the Jews, because, to you, they're holy, sacred, something that's already been drilled into you to be beyond reproach--not allowed to be spoken of except in defense and absurdity. They're too important, powerful, unknown. Subconsciously, you know the truth, but your mind can't handle the truth, so you continue to attack anybody who opposes your closed world views.
From: Joel
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
It's not about a few people or lots of people in countries. It's not that Jews or British or CIA, MI6/MI7, are behind all theses things. It's more a matter of people being intelligent and responsible. We each don't have first-hand knowledge, but we need to use common sense--and we need others' info. You can't trust any government agency nor people spewing hate. The Rothschilds and other Illuminati, dynasty families--international banking royals, heads of governments, and so forth--are the ones with the power. Obviously, the military is controlled by them--and no, the chemtrails are not just a "military communications" device. Use common sense. Israel is super powerful because of where it stands, who controls it, and why. It's not the Jews. It's the "game." It's perceptions, ignorance, and stubbornness. People simply refuse to open their eyes. They're too afraid. So, they're slaves. And they do have super weapons. That's in the mainstream. People choose to believe that the super weapons are a good thing, when the definition of a weapon is the opposite. Stupid belief systems.
From: Michael
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] word truth
Date: September 21, 2011 9:58:23 PM PDT
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
I like the fact that there is a discussion taking place, would love it if there could be more of a civil discussion. We are adults here. No need to attack with insults.
Personally, I've never seen any hard evidence or remote evidence for that matter of actual "reptilian people." Not saying they don't exist but let's just acknowledge that they are people for now.
I have to agree that, as much as I want Ron Paul to "save the day" and expose the FED, it just won't happen. I advocate to others for Ron Paul because of his thoughts but I'm a realist.
Alex Jones is a complete shill. I hated hearing that too Brad, for the first time, but once you open your mind up to it, it's obvious. He's done lots for waking people, but has they woken them up as much as he could? Absolutely not! He stays very clear of Israel and the Jewish mafia, when it is well known that they control the US on all angles. You can't deny that. Yes, American "officials" like Dick Cheney and Bush, etc are all part of it, but to deny the Jewish connection is foolish. Have you heard of the USS LIBERTY? How do you think the jews were granted the "right" to take over Palestine in the 50's?
From: Michael
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Clyde Lewis 911 Event
Date: September 21, 2011 10:08:44 PM PDT
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
I see your thoughts there Brad, well said.
Joel, very well said.
There is no end all, be all, bad guy here to point the finger. They're all murderers!
We can all agree on that and that we were completely lied to on 9/11. Its weird though, why would Israel be subserviant to others when they have all the money, weapons, and technology
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:36 PM, BRAD wrote:
I haven't attacked anyone, I just mocked you. When I see people trying to turn 911 truth into a circus parade I speak up.
From: brad
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] word truth
I thought I mentioned the USS liberty in my note. My understanding of it was Israel acting in complicity with LBJ to start a war with egypt. I don't believe that LBJ was controlled by Israel, rather Israel and lbj had the same controllers as I believe is still the case now. I think many people are reluctant to even talk about Israel because ther are so many raving lunatics out there claiming Israel has the power of god or something. Israel didn't create itself, therefore the creators have more power than the created. It has a purpose to the creators and is used for that purpose. there is nothing autonomous about it.
where is your evidence that Alex Jones is a shill? Out to make a buck for sure. guilty of constant self promotion. A suck up to celebrity absolutely. A shill? No I haven't experienced that and I've heard nearly every show since 2005. I have an exellent memory. Show some examples about how he is a shill. Try not to use logical fallacies like "it is well known that the jewish mafia controls the us." Why not "we have consensus the earth is flat and polar bears can't swim in a straight line."
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Michael
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 3:10 PM
Subject: Alex Jones- wake up to deception
Yeah, sorry I read that email after replying.
I thought I mentioned the USS liberty in my note. My understanding of it was Israel acting in complicity with LBJ to start a war with egypt. I don't believe that LBJ was controlled by Israel, rather Israel and lbj had the same controllers as I believe is still the case now.
Who are these controllers?
I think many people are reluctant to even talk about Israel because ther are so many raving lunatics out there claiming Israel has the power of god or something. Israel didn't create itself, therefore the creators have more power than the created. It has a purpose to the creators and is used for that purpose. there is nothing autonomous about it.
Ever hear of the golden rule, he who has the gold, rules! I'm sure there is some truth to what you are saying.
where is your evidence that Alex Jones is a shill? Out to make a buck for sure. guilty of constant self promotion. A suck up to celebrity absolutely. A shill? No I haven't experienced that and I've heard nearly every show since 2005. I have an exellent memory. Show some examples about how he is a shill. Try not to use logical fallacies like "it is well known that the jewish mafia controls the us." Why not "we have consensus the earth is flat and polar bears can't swim in a straight line."
Waking up people to Alex Jones is very difficult, just try it for a week. Pay attention to how defensive he gets, goes off on anyone that says anything about Israel involvement, etc. He's a gate-keeper, no different than the rest of the shills on TV. Like I said, just try it for a week. Be willing to give up a little bit of what you think you know and see if a small glimpse of light gets through. After all, this is what we try to get people to do when waking them up to 9/11. Remember, being wrong about something is a good thing, it means you have just reached a higher level of consciousness and understanding. I sure hope that I'm wrong.
Alex Jones Provides Platform to Fanatical Zionist Wall St. Rabbi/Goldman Sachs VP http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2011/09/alex-jones-provides.html
Just entertain the idea that he could possibly not have your best interest at heart and see what happens. I don't know about you all but the only reason I'm involved in any of this TRUTH business is because I believe in integrity, values, TRUTH, justice, peace, and LOVE for all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYnzjP_Bm1g&feature=related
From: brad
Sender: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:08:03 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Alex Jones- wake up to deception
that is quite a deceptive article. the rabbi came on the show as the director of JPFO. Are you now saying that JPFO is an evil zionist organization? Why did that article fail to mention JPFO even once? that is why he was on there. did jpfo pay to be on the AJ show? probably that is often how it works. it is quite interesting how the article confuses Torah based education with talmudic indoctrination. not a mistake , done on purpose. So you are saying Jews are bad? I have known a lot of jews and most of them are really good people. Fun to make jokes about, but good people. So your evidence is a blog article that claims the rabbi works for Goldman sachs. Wow. My brother works for goldman sachs. Not a jew. not a zionist. JPFO shares many of the same goals as does AJ and myself and what you should be working towards. Instead you spend your time trying to make people hack at the branches and avoid the root. You want people to be concerned with some boogieman Israel, but avoid dealing with the AMERICANS that have committed crimes and can be prosecuted for what they did. you cant do anything about some other sovereign nation, we collectively can do something about crimes committed here. Why would a 911 truth group spend all of its energy talking about Israel and Palestine and jews and christians and space beams when there are 1500 credible architects and engineering professionals putting their asses on the line proving to any reasonable person that the three towers were brought down by controlled demolition? You say nanothermite is disinfo. wow, because its provable. Instead you promote space beams and things that are unprovable even if it were used. You spen your energy promoting the idea that alex jones is a gatekeeper when he is bringing the same message to THE MAINSTREAM that others are bringing to a few people at a time. everyone who is having a positive effect you spend your energies trying to turn people away from them.
SOMETHING IS FISHY IN PORTLAND 911 TRUTH.
If i worked for the feds here is the strategy i would follow. I would move to a new city where nobody knows me and can say that i work for the goverment. I would start a group claiming to oppose the issue that I am trying to protect. I would try to discourage any talk about what is actually effective and keep the dialouge in areas that are completely unprovable and ridiculous to normal people who it is essential to relate with if there is to be social change. keep people spinning in circles promote attacks on foreign boogiemen kind of like muslim terrorists. dissuade newbies from listening to anyone that can direct them towards the root of the problem and attack anyone who is having a big effect. play the good guy and have my colleagues pipe in with the reptillian shapeshifting theories while pretending that as "the leader" I am against all of that. If anyone joins the group that understands how things actually work try to make the group so disparaging and retarded that they are dissuaded from being active. once the group is formed you can have some control over the discourse in that area. Make people work for prosecutions on their own but as all costs keep the group as rabid as possible, discourage any real activism - keep the focus on jews and space beams and palestine and hating anyone who is having an effect. Use ridiculous claims in blog articles written by cointell officers as evidence and avoid any real evidence at all costs. this is how I would try to control a movement in any given geographical area. The problem is this only works on fools. Intelligent people will see you for what you are.
wait a minute that isn't fish that I smell, I think its B,B,B,Bacon.......
From: Michael
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Alex Jones- wake up to deception
Wow! I have to say, I really like your "in your face" attitude. But I would be more receptive if you used more tact, I wonder if you speak like that in all of your relationships. I'm just pointing out somethings about Alex Jones and the Jewish mafia that has been running this country, with the aid of all the horrible american bad guys you speak of, for some time now.
HEY EVERYONE, only pay attention to A&E, don't look at all of the parties involved! Or the reasons for doing it! Don't pay attention to all of the dual-citizenships in DC of Israel and the heads of all of the major media networks. Just be obsessed with nano-thermite. How's that Brad? Who doesn't live in Portland and hasn't started anything for 9/11 Truth in his "home city of Corvalis."
Don't take that tone again or I'll bar you from the group on grounds of harrassment and in-fighting.
Hope you are all having a good one. I'm getting on with my day of spreading Truth, Peace and Love.
Michael
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Joel wrote:
It's about time more people wake up to the reality of Israel! and Israeli-American affairs and media and corporate control through Zionist and secret society concerns! Indeed, stop wasting your time and energy in-fighting, Brad, which is what you're doing. People are searching for the truth, and Brad bashes people for doing so.
From: brad
Sender: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 15:11:34 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Alex Jones- wake up to deception
alex jones talks about the Isrealli dual citizens in and now out of the obama regime quite often. he must be a shill. I'm not in-fighting I smell something funny in this meetup. I may have been the only person to bring it up but I can guarantee that others have been turned off by all this isrealli space beam reptillian stuff. most people just seperate themselves from the stuff if it feels wrong but I like to point it out if it smells fishy. If just some of the links you post were disinfo I might have thought that you guys were dupes, but when all of the sites are disinfo and you guys(I'm assuming here I may be off base) have james fetzer come speak, promote the whole fake wing of 911 truth and talk bad about the people that are reaching more people than anybody else whether you like them or not(alex jones,ron paul and architects and engineers for 911 truth)it REALLY SMELLS FISHY TO ME. I was in portland two weekends ago and went down to lucky lab to get a feel in person about the legitimacy of you guys and see what you talk about in person, but ther was only like 10 people in the whole place and none of them looked like truthers. If I was a shill I would definitely have a drinking night to establish my social standing with the group in the city I just moved to, while I spilled my filth about jews and unprovable space theories. It is actually the same strategy (not the drinking night) that I use when fighting fluoridation here locally, but in reverse. THEY try to steer the discourse into areas of dentists and claim vs counterclaim and I focus on what is provable- that the hydroflurosalicic acid used is nothing but unrefined.toxic industrial waste. THEY always attempt to switch the debate into the science of fluoridation wherew you can find a stack of information a mile high either pro or con fluoride, that way it clogs up the city councils forever with muddy information that the people holding seats on the council are not really qualified to quantify the validity of. I see you doing the same thing with 911 truth, switching the debate into some muddy spectrum where no one is qualified to determine whether some exotic weaponry was used. "well its so exotic that nobody knows how it works therefore nobody can or can't prove whether it was used at all(except for some guy who has a blog)." In addition if this is all just the result of some "jewry" I could care less. I want accountability for the crimes that are committed, I could care less what the motives are fore some sick murderer to commit their crimes. Focusing on some jewish conspiracy puts the debate into some unprovable world you could never prove anything one way or another. you can't prove motive. You can prove crime and physics. If you were some follower who thought these things i would think you were just a fool but since you are the so called "leader" of this meetup I am quite convinced that you are something else.. like I said I smell bacon. -bradly
From: Michael
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Alex Jones- wake up to deception
Suit yourself Brad. Thanks for your interest in the group and now I thank you for your absence. Didn't bother to read anything but the first line of your email and it didn't seem like you were kidding.
In a related note, there's protests in NY and LA regarding the Federal Reserve and the criminal money changers, Alex Jones barely mentions it. Isn't that what he is always working for? You'd think he'd make it a big deal. How can we get something like that going here in Portland? Anyone?
Take care Brad
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Joel wrote:
Great points, Michael. Indeed, Alex Jones would be out of a job if he attacked the financial power stack-of-cards pyramid scheme, because they finance his "career."
I think stuff like that isn't going on in Portland simply because Portland is so much smaller compared to LA and NYC. Seattle had huge protests about the WTO when they were in town, because that's where those banksters operate (occasionally). Wall Street is always open to pillage--it's the biggest financial center, except London?--and LA is the biggest entertainment (brainwashing) capitol, second-largest city in this country, though it is also very forward in many of the things it does. Rome is huge--they should be protesting there, but they're pretty religious. Greece was having protests, too. Americans are pretty tame, except for some who've been rocked by 9/11, which should be a great catalyst for positive change--and it has been--though the negative seems to overshadow the good.
"GCN's yoke with [affiliate of] ABC makes sense considering their willingness to broadcast commercials for New Age healing companies such as Herbalhealer.com. The New Age movement is an intrinsic part of the New World Order and most alternative media broadcasters are helping to further this movement.
GCN's mainstream media connection might also account for the fact that Alex Jones, GCN's main broadcaster, will not expose the high-level players in the NWO network, such as the Jesuits and the Scientologists (who employ many of the same control tactics as the Jesuits.)
For more information see this particular webpage: GCN: An ABC Affiliate (Note: We do not agree with every article or opinion on this website.)" (http://libertytothecaptives.net/gcn_abc_affiliate.html) --Alex's broadcast company. Note: They don't expose Zionists, either.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1813351/posts 'In addition, when I asked Mrs. Koernke where she thought Ted Anderson stood on the truth movement (i.e. if he really believed in its ideals), she said that “he was a businessman out to make money off the patriot movement, and he was just using them as a source to sell gold and silver for Midas Resources."'Just a business exploiting the "truth."
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:19 PM, brad moss wrote:
in many ways joel I would agree with the quote from mrs. koerneke whomever that is. I listened to mark a lot a long time ago and I liked his take on things at the time. I assume that is his wife. He always said to keep an eye on your local adl members and if they pack up and split town you had better do the same(concerning false flags)probably good advice. yes silverstein is of jewish descent but what is relevant about that? HOw about rumsfeld? he's not a jew but of german descent so I guess he is a good guy. wait let me guess.... he's a jew lover!
From: brad
Sender: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 01:03:24 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Alex Jones- wake up to deception
If you cant think of any rebuttal for my perceptions Michael just pretend you didn't read it. Cover your ears and say three times "I cant hear you ." I can't know what you are but I can certainly see your actions. "you will know them by their deeds."
From: Michael
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Fw: Alex Jones- wake up to deception
Date: September 27, 2011 10:15:04 PM PDT
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Sorry everyone who has been reading all of the negative crap by Brad, finally got him blocked from the group. Its funny how as soon as people start getting to the TRUTH, especially about Zionists, the attacks and discourse becomes much more angry and defensive. Hmmmmm?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: Greg
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 10:07:33 -0500
To: John Beatty
Cc:
Subject: Re: Have you seen this? (and yes it's really me 8-)
Hi. It's Mr. Negative here. I have little to no faith in Houston as far as any number of activists or concerned citizens stepping out in the streets to do anything other than yell at the few who are in the streets. I have bets that the number won't be over 30 if it does happen. We might hear a lot of honks when we're on the bridge, but this city is still very much asleep in my opinion.
greg
From: Michael
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 16:34:22 +0000
To: Greg from Houston
ReplyTo: Michael
Cc:
Subject: Re: Have you seen this? (and yes it's really me 8-)
Were doing it here in Portland. Occupyportland.org
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:54 AM, Michael wrote:
Awesome to see these events trying to pop up all over the country in attempt to combat the banksters and bring awareness.
Also, Wayne Madsen was on Alex Jones today. Last time I heard from him, he was writing a book about Obama's birthplace. Hmmmmmm, funny, but no mention of that today. Just illustrating how phony AJ and his guests can be at times. One big psy-op!!! And for all you AJ lovers out there, Yes he has a good platform for "waking people up" but he's not doing it fully and has interests other than the "peoples prosperity, integrity and love" guiding him. Watch how defensive he gets about Israel. Its just so obvious. Rediscover911.com
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: "J.T. Waldron"
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 14:00:36 -0400
Just checking - are you weighing in on the debate with the guy you kicked off the forum?
J.T.
From: Michael
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Re: Have you seen this? Also, Wayne Madsenon Alex Jones today.
Date: September 28, 2011 11:09:54 AM PDT
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
What debate JT? What is your problem man? Seriously! I have nothing to hide. I'm sick of your accusations as well. I keep saying that I don't know exactly what happened on 9/11, other than I know I and we are all being lied to. I posted some meetups and action events. Will you be there as my brother or my enemy? What are you trying to prove? Why are you so paranoid? I remember how we went to a rally about a year ago and you seemed cool. I tried to get stuff going with you and for whatever reason, you got all reclusive and secretive. Don't respond with anything negative or less than constructive, if you can't do that, remove yourself from the group. Hope you get disillusioned about who I am. I will not sit here and defend my efforts to promote Truth, Justice, and Peace for one second longer
From: "J.T. Waldron"
Sender: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 14:53:47 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Re: Have you seen this? Also, Wayne Madsenon Alex Jones today.
Well, I was under the impression that there was an exchange between you and Brad Moss about subjects concerning Israel, Zionism, Judaism and Alex Jones.
What initially caught my attention was when the only explosive residue that remains in the dust samples as evidence was being dismissed as bogus based on a presentation by James Fetzer. That would catch anybody's attention.
You agree we're being lied to. Fine. That makes a big group.
Ever answer an employment add to find a group of people sitting in a room waiting for a pitch for a straight commission sales job? One might figure out what it is and get up to leave the room. What does the person running the meeting do? Explain to the rest of the crowd how that the person who just left "doesn't have what it takes to soar with the eagles and needs to be confined to a 9-5 job".
When you pick up the same subject and reinforce your points after you pulled the dude's plug (because of your exchange over the same subject matter) it looks self serving. Maybe it's just me with an etiquette issue.
Anyway, if you think that I'm not strong enough against Alex Jones and Zionism or I'm leaning too heavy on the stuff that would work in a judicial review, then do what you think is important in this case.
J.T.
From: Michael
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Re: Have you seen this? Also, Wayne MadsenonAlex Jones today.
Date: September 28, 2011 12:31:53 PM PDT
To: portland911truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
I appreciate your tone, very constructive yet still slightly accusational, regarding your comment about pulling his plug. He was being insulting. We are all not going to see things with the exact same view and that's ok, but there must be tact and respect durin discussion. That's why he was removed from the group. Not bc I'm self serving.
I agree that there is evidence of things that would hold up "judicially" and I am all for that. I only said to be aware of the possibility based on other physical evidence that could point to other theories of the demolitions. Sorry if its not perfectly in line with your views, but that's the way it is. If you, JT, and anyone else, only want to believe A&E for 911 Truth, then so be it, but I am going to keep an open mind and not be nieve enough to think that I know every type of explosive or super weapon out there. I remember how upset I got with a friend when he introduced the "no planes" theory, but now realize that it is indeed possible, based on the corporate media power structure. That's why I focus on having a "big group" as you say, rather than isolate and divide, as all of your comments seem to point to. We need to have common ground, storm DC and take the Truth right out of the pentagon computers. Courts aren't going to save you or me or provide any justice, look at the history, they're all corrupt.
I hope some of this gets through to you
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg
To: sullivan michael < Michael>
Cc: Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance and various individuals
Sent: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:12:01 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: URGENT ACTION: Please Vote to have OWS include a 9/11 truth legal action
The idea that we will ever have an honest investigation into the attacks of September 11, 2001 is absurd. The People, including many 'experts' have done the investigation! It's been done and we even know many names of those involved. To think for any reason whatsoever that there might one day be an official investigation where justice is involved is nothing but a pipe dream. If the day ever came that we could have an real investigation it would mean that there would be no need for it because that would mean the shit has been cleaned up and we have honest people in control.
IF... there ever was to be an investigation such as what shills like Steven Jones, David Ray Griffin, the AE911Truth team and others are pushing for then I assure you the so-called truthers would no doubt be represented by those very shills and their messages. If they used the baseless claim that nanothermite brought down the towers, for example, the truthers would be laughed out of court immediately because the science isn't there to support the absurd theory that something that is not an explosive can bring down towers alone.
OR... if we had such an investigation they could use those very shills along with AJ, Tarpley and others who cover up for Israel's crimes and turn to entire thing into a big - USA did it campaign as part of their way of tearing down this country and bringing us into a one-world government. The perpetrators knew the people would learn about the big lie so they put their people in place to begin with and have been teaching people to change "inside job" for years. The perpetrators want the U.S. to be blamed in the end as Israel gets off without a slap on the wrist and our country is exposed as the sole criminal who should be dealt with by blending us in with other nations around the globe for our own 'safety.'
Calling for a new investigation is a total joke and is no doubt part of what the shills in the movement want us to keep fighting for. It's a total stalling tactic. The perpetrators don't care if AE911Truth keeps doing what they do. They don't care what AJ says. They don't care what Webster Tarpley shares with the public. The perps don't care as long as you don't go after them. The fake truth movement was set in motion to help keep focus on stupid things like asking for justice through a real investigation (LMAO) instead of focusing on the pricks that orchestrated and profited from the attacks.
My thoughts,
greg
From: Michael
To: Greg < Greg from Houston>
Cc: Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance and various individuals
Sent: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 23:35:25 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: URGENT ACTION: Please Vote to have OWS include a 9/11 truth legal action
Greg, I love your thinking! Including the idea that there is even reason to question 9/11 at OWS is a step in the right direction. Pinning our hopes on an investigation is naive, Pinning our hopes on getting the masses to question the OCT of 9/11 is necessary. We have to keep stirring the pot.
Nanothermite?
J.T. Waldron jt@soundandfury.tv
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Re: URGENT ACTION: Please Vote to have OWS include a 9/11 truth legal action
Date: October 19, 2011 1:00:37 PM PDT
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
If you got reproducible, scientific studies that point to exotic weaponry, let's see them.
It's a red flag when the statement is made denying the explosive nature of nanothermate, especially when it was so adequately demonstrated on the 10th anniversary by David Chandler and Jon Cole. They spent hours doing it. Again, there's never an attempt to deny the existence of other explosives, so mutual exclusivity seems to only be implied by those arguing against thermate (usually by calling it thermite).
I guess if you repeat something a number of times, regardless of the disparity between what you are saying and what was demonstrated publicly, we might finally throw up our hands and abandon any evidence that would be helpful for the pursuit of justice.
Sure, every branch of our government is corrupt or "rigged". Seen it up close. That doesn't mean you can't paint somebody in the corner and create a defining moment. Seen that happen as well.
This crime is absent an authentic criminal investigation. Due process has never been used in this case.
Seems we're being encouraged to abandon this pursuit because it won't be a fair process. When was it ever a fair process? Were there ever productive outcomes (new discoveries) that resulted from past investigations? Certainly.
If an authentic criminal investigation is a stall tactic, what's being stalled? Where is due process if we're expected to "go after the perps"?
J.T.
On Oct 19, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Michael wrote:
If you got reproducible, scientific studies that point to exotic weaponry, let's see them.
Who is this statement to, JT? If you're responding to Greg's comments, then it would be great if you could click reply to all to keep the discussion intact. You know where I stand on the demolitions. I DON'T KNOW!!!
What is your message advocating JT? Its confusing. Are you in favor of a real investigation? Thermite/thermate whatever in my book buddy. Like I said, let's occupy the pentagon and get the answers, instead of the petty infighting that gets us NO WHERE! Who's with me?
Michael
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:46 PM, J.T. Waldron
Yes, I hit "reply" instead of "reply all", but "reply all" wouldn't have worked either. I'll go ahead and add all the various emails to this response if you prefer.
I don't see any ambiguity in my statement below. If there's something you don't understand, let me know what it is.
J.T.
From:Greg from Houston
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 23:47:34 +0000 (UTC)
To: Greg
Cc: Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance and various individuals
Subject: adenda Re: URGENT ACTION: Please Vote to have OWS include a 9/11 truth legal action
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/27/nanothermite-if-it-doesnt-fit-you-must-acquit/
Dr Jones already proved himself as a spoiler with cold fusion. Dr Jones was fired for being slack, not 9/11 truth. Kevin Barret was fired for 9/11 truth.
No professional demolition experts support thermate. Take the best from all theories. Hurricane Erin was in a perfect position to act as a vaccum cleaner, preventing any evidence of nuclear demolition from reaching sensors in Europe by prevailing winds. Judy Wood includes the best evidence of nuclear demolition at her website, although she proposes exotic weapons. Dr Ed Ward proves nuclear demolition, citing radiation specific cancers and tritium levels 55X normal, etc.
All collapse videos are suspect. The collapse videos of Building 7 are 100% fake. http://septemberclues.info/wtc_collapses.htm
On Oct 21, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Michael wrote:
So.... Greg, why do you think the towers fell?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Oct 22, 2011, at 12:12 AM, J.T. Waldron wrote:
O.K., so I'm reading that no professional demolition experts support thermite (which, again, is supposed to be thermate).
You telling me Tom Sullivan doesn't support the use of thermate as a means to cut key loads?
Bullshit.
http://weeklyintercept.blogspot.com/2011/03/tom-sullivan-explosives-loader.html
"September Clues":
http://weeklyintercept.blogspot.com/2011/07/reply-to-fetzer-over-no-plane-nonsense.html
One redeeming quality about "September Clues" is that it helps to find out who is pushing this theory in the first place. Take a good look at this movie and you soon realize that those pushing the "no planes hit the building theory" are compromised. To state the obvious, the only functions for these assertions are to distract the 9/11 Truth movement and diminish its credibility. Cass Sunstein's wet dream.
If a movement is going to make it on its own, however, it must be able to overcome these incohesive side shows to become stronger and more focused in its message. That is exactly what happened in 2006 between "Scholars for 9/11 Truth" and "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice".
The prospect of an effective 9/11 Truth movement in Portland seems to be nightmare for somebody.
J.T.
On Oct 22, 2011, at 10:10 AM, Michael wrote:
Hey JT,
What's with the last comment of your previous email? What would you do to have a more "effective Portland 9/11 Truth?" Better yet, what have you/are you doing for Portland 9/11 Truth except dish out negative comments? You don't strike me as someone who is actually out to do good, just sayin'. Not sure if its your ego or you are part of the establishment but you criticize with no better suggestions. Why is that?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: Greg from Houston
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Re: adenda Re: URGENT ACTION: Please Vote to have OWS include a 9/11 truth legal action
Date: October 22, 2011 11:27:15 AM PDT
J.T.,
I spent a while the other night writing responses to this e-mail chain, but decided to think it out more. For now...
"those pushing the "no planes hit the building theory" are compromised."
Am I compromised, J.T.? Are all of the many activists I know who also support the claim that we shown fake images of planes hitting towers also compromised? Or is this maybe about the evidence and not who mentions it? Is it possible that crazy acting people were put out there to introduce the idea of no-planes to discredit that reality? That way shills like Alex Jones can call them crazy people, completely ignore the evidence to support the theories and then sweep it under the rug like it never happened, leaving his hypnotized audience to then repeat his rhetoric and attack anyone who so much as mentions no-planes?
"To state the obvious, the only functions for these assertions are to distract the 9/11 Truth movement and diminish its credibility."
I certainly wouldn't start out saying it's "obvious" and definitely wouldn't take it even further using the word "only," especially when the statement is so far from reality. The argument that the no-planes theories are "only" there to "distract" and "diminish" "credibility" is nothing but rhetoric. In fact it reminds me of sheeple in the street telling me that there is no way we could have been lied to about the attacks of September 11, 2001 because too many people would have to be involved. Neither of those statements are based on any evidence whatsoever. In fact the evidence refutes both statements.
I can easily prove my point by asking you, J.T., to please point me in the direction of any mainstream media reports on TV, online or in print that refer to 9/11 truthers as no-planers! If the no-planes theory isn't based on evidence and is really created by the perps to discredit the movement then wouldn't the media masterminds be using it repeatedly to do just that? The fact is that the terrorist attacks of that day were mostly thanks to a major media hoax. The major weapon in regards to the events was and remains the mainstream media and there is no chance in the world that they're going to even entertain the idea of exposing themselves by sharing the message of fake videos with the public. Again, if you are so certain that one of the only reasons is to discredit the movement then please, please point out where anyone other than confused truthers are calling out that we're all nuts for believing such things. I remember one interview on Fox News several years ago when Morgan Reynolds said it looked like a cartoon. Seems that I'd have seen tons of clips by now if that is the reason for the theories in the first place.
I have had no problem remaining good friends with and continuing to hit the streets with others who do not see eye-to-eye with me about no-planes. That is because it is only a divisive theory when people like you, J.T., make it into such! It is those like you who try to refute evidence with rhetoric who add the potential of a less-effective group.
The no-planes angle is the best way to attack and destroy their biggest, most powerful weapon of all time – their fake news. Exposing the clear fact that we were shown images that could not represent reality could do wonders to finally discredit the media. So you see, it's the other way around. The theory helps destroy the media who helped pull off the attacks, not those sharing the honest message. And that is why the media will NEVER try to make no-planes an issue to discredit anyone.
I don't think you have a clue about why the scholars groups split up. I say that because it seems clear to me that you buy into the fake truth movement and support the given leaders without questioning things with logic and reason. If you believe shills like either of the Jones scumbags who are seen as leaders than you're sure as lost. Rhetoric will never win a debate.
So many so-called truthers are happy to explain to strangers that the 80+ floors below the alleged impact site would have had to provide resistance, meaning the Twin Towers could never have come down at near free fall speed. Yet so many of those same truthers ignore the exact same science that explains that the building would not only have provided resistance to the floors above, but also to a plane hitting the side of the tower. If you watch the video of the alleged second hit you'll see there is NO COLLISION! Not only did the building provide no resistance whatsoever to a 757, it even allowed it to pass all the way through the building at the same speed it did through thin air and then come out on the other side (nosed-out). Hmmmm. I guess I should trust those videos because to do otherwise would be divisive.
In regards to the sad joke of nanothermite pushed down the throats of the less-than-free-thinking truthers:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/27/nanothermite-if-it-doesnt-fit-you-must-acquit/
The prospect of thinking outside of the box with logic and reason seems to be a nightmare for somebody.
Thanks,
greg
Missing wing, no collision, tail wings go in same hole as front wings, which are much lower, traveling through the building without slowing at all from the speed in thin air, impossible speeds, etc. I could go on and on and on...
Hmmmmm!!!! Nothing to see here. Look away. :P
From: jt@soundandfury.tv
Subject: Re: [Portland911Truth] Re: adenda Re: URGENT ACTION: Please Vote to have OWS include a 9/11 truth legal action
Date: October 22, 2011 3:46:43 PM PDT
This is a response to Mike' s last email and to Greg's email (nanothermite-if-it-doesn't-fit-you-must-acquit):
Not my ego. Just no place to go. I've been actively involved with 9/11 Truth since 2005.
Here's some of the work we've done since the group started:
http://www.youtube.com/user/911TruthTucson
If you look at the uploads, you could see some of the past demos.
This one is particularly interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2jrap_ct1U
We hosted Fetzer, Gage, Rodriguez, Griffin, Bowman, etc.
By the way, the 2006 Tucson presentation was one of the events that caused Steven Jones to reconsider his relationship with Fetzer. We watched it in real time as it came to a head.
It's been a lot of trial and error. First thing we noticed, one of the founders was a little squishy over Israeli involvement. Insisted on minutes of the meetings (this serves to implicate the group later) and changing the minutes whenever a guest speaker would discuss involvement by Israel.
And of course, it's one of the founders of the the group that happened to be pulling this stuff.
The typical tactics are to try to schedule events that are bad ideas (on off days or dumb times), exhaust the groups treasury, or waste people's time with ventures that have a high use of time per person reached.
Speaking of wasting time, the local Pima County Green Party in AZ insisted on having people collect signatures from door to door residents instead of educating their potential base about their group, which is the fastest path to ballot access. Other folks will try to get you to hook up with groups that are obviously compromised, like Move-On or other ineffectual massively funded groups that lean heavy on party politics.
Back then, what broke up Phoenix's 9/11 Truth group (exodus to 'We Are Change') was the hours spent by them arguing over protrusions (In 1st "Loose Change" and "In Plane Site" ) at the bottom of the plane and the the flame-up from the walls near the engines while the plane is going into the building. Staring at still frames, again.
This was a case of a group leader (Kent Knudsen) who allowed this crap to occupy the people's time until they got frustrated and gave up. Observing this phenomenon caused us to realize that those pushing this stuff are best viewed as compromised, For example, a person we're presenting to (usually politicians or people in a meaningful position of power) would immediately latch on to the stupidest point to relieve themselves of the need to further look into the matter. True to form, you wind up with a podster wriggling his way into a meeting. This typically turns into a wasted meeting that goes South the instant Mr. Pod opens his mouth. Despite these occurrences, we made good progress.
There has been a certain degree of success for 9/11 Truth. That's why it is now a target for these shenanigans.
This seems less than ironic given that Portland, OR is a huge hub for activism. Home of the largest extra-New York occupation movement in the country.
Most of the Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance subscribe to and push the "September Clues" bunk. First learning this, I was able to relate to the dude that put on the "They Live" glasses for the first time. Add this to attempting to denounce the only evidence indicating use of explosive material - Based on a presentation by Jim Fetzer. You can't do anything with this. An elementary point learned long ago. I try to figure out how I can meaningfully contribute, but the situation is compromised.
Sure, I lack tact, but I'll normally shut up unless something absurd comes my way. Then it shouldn't go unchallenged. I encourage others to do so as well.
By the way. No response to my past point about abandoning an authentic criminal investigation and due process. Would like to see one.
Hope this helps,
J.T.
From: Greg
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 20:30:37 -0500
To: houston truth
Subject: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
So sad to see the honest ones punished for speaking the truth.
greg
Subject: Interesting development...
FYI: There was a video floating around on Youtube of a lady named Patricia McAllister who attended the LA Occupy Wall St event. It gained a lot of attention because of her honesty. Of course the mainstream media took it out of context and made a mockery of her... nothing new here.
http://vimeo.com/30857269
Apparently she was recently fired from her job because of her outspokenness towards the financial problems in America. Didn't even get a pink slip to go with the dismissal!
You can download a podcast from Truth Hertz - Charles Giuliani talk show and listen to her experience. Very interesting!
On Oct 24, 2011, at 10:49 PM, Michael wrote:
Greg,
Sorry if you're working on a response. Just curious... If it was media fakery and not nanothermite/mate, what do you or anyone else in the group think brought down the towers?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: Greg
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 23:43:18 -0500
To:
Cc: houston truth
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
It seems to me most 9/11 truthers don't believe that planes had anything to do with the collapse of the towers so whether one is a no-planer or not shouldn't change that. I don't deny that nanothermite could have played a role in the destruction, but it definitely isn't the smoking gun to bring justice.
Being a no-planer and not buying into the hype about nanothermite still leaves infinite options for the destruction of the Twin Towers. Nanothermite is not a high explosive so ruling that out as the main component should come as no surprise to anyone in my opinion.
greg
On Oct 24, 2011, at 11:51 PM, Michael wrote:
So... Nanothermite played a role, what role do you think?
Does anybody else in this entire group have any thoughts on what brought the towers down? Anyone?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: Greg
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 23:56:45 -0500
To:
Cc: houston truth
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
Nanothermite sure as ____ didn't bring the towers down. That I do know. I assume it could have been used on columns to help cut the steel, but it didn't cause the squibs I've seen ejecting from the towers and didn't turn all of that concrete and steel into dust. The idea that we should focus on nanothermite as the smoking gun to 9/11 is a sick joke played out by the perps and the truther community bought it hook, line and sinker. Some people will forever be sheeple, no matter what group they're aligned with.
g
On Oct 24, 2011, at 11:58 PM, Michael wrote:
So then what? do you not care? Do you not want to have an answer for those that you are trying to wake up to the lie?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: Greg
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 00:04:32 -0500
To: < Michael>
Cc: houston truth
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
NANOTHERMITE as the smoking gun is a total red herring / hoax. Why does not buying into the hype about that have to mean I don't care about what brought the towers down?
I'd rather show or tell people about Building 7 coming down than try to explain how some incendiary the military makes is to blame for destruction of the towers.
Why does it have to be one way or the other? Either nanotherimite BS story or buy into the official report?
On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 12:21 AM,
It doesn't... I was just having a discussion to see where your researched/leader of the 911 Truth group, head was at regarding the subject.
I wonder why nanothermite would be introduced as a red herring if in reality there was just some other kind of explosive used, any thoughts on that specifically?
How about super weapons?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Oct 24, 2011, at 11:52 PM, Greg wrote:
"For me, it is important I remain open-minded about the details of what brought down the towers, put a hole in the pentagon and a crater in Pennsylvania field. "
Agreed!! That is the most important part.
I no doubt am very opinionated, but I do my best to stay open-minded. I always love to be proven wrong and never get more excited about reading or watching something that I've been told will do just that.
I. LOVE. THAT. CLIP. lolol to the bank! Ah man! And when asked again as to get clarification er you didn't mean to say jooooooooooooooooooooooooooos run things...did you? lol no zionist jews...lol. Anyways, too many lol's already. But that is a great clip. " What would you say if somebody said that about your race" " You better say something if they were trying to destroy the country!" ...lol...couldn't resist
In my opinion, she didn't get fired. She got promoted.
Anyways, about the 9-11 to be or not to be. First off, let me say this. I am a layman aka idiot on the science of this stuff. I rely on a lot of my basic instinct and common knowledge with this topic. I was suspicious of what I saw 9.11.01. I remember thinking while watching the tv..."something doesn't look right. Is that building warping?" As in inhaling and exhaling. When I had that thought, I began to question what I was seeing despite the hysterics and the magnitude of the current situation. Afterall, what I was seeing was on TV. But it wasn't until some years later that I began to seriously question the official 9.11 conspiracy. What I think brought down the twin towers? I can't say for certain but I am pretty sure it wasn't two planes. Govt theory: two planes brought down two 100+ floors buildings and a third building with 47 or so floors at free fall speed. Horse shit.
I do not discount super weapons or any reasonable possibility. I am sure the government have instruments within its possession that many of us could never imagine. For me, it is important I remain open-minded about the details of what brought down the towers, put a hole in the pentagon and a crater in Pennsylvania field.
On Oct 25, 2011, at 7:06 PM, J.T. Waldron wrote:
Past statements:
"Nanothermite sure as ____ didn't bring the towers down. That I do know. I assume it could have been used on columns to help cut the steel, but it didn't cause the squibs I've seen ejecting from the towers and didn't turn all of that concrete and steel into dust. The idea that we should focus on nanothermite as the smoking gun to 9/11 is a sick joke played out by the perps and the truther community bought it hook, line and sinker. Some people will forever be sheeple, no matter what group they're aligned with."
"I don't deny that nanothermite could have played a role in the destruction, but it definitely isn't the smoking gun to bring justice. "
Understanding how one turn of a phrase can get exploited ad nauseam, I'll attempt to eliminate confusion over one point about the nanothermate:
I previously said "Add this to attempting to denounce the only evidence indicating use of explosive material - Based on a presentation by Jim Fetzer."
In fact, there's all kinds of other evidence. Even with the push to weaken the video evidence, we still have video evidence, eye-witness testimony, iron droplets in the dust, beams with bolts removed, seismic data, steel beams with diagonal cuts from charges, melted/warped beams and a ton of additional circumstantial evidence.
While most appreciate what scientists and experts bring through the use of their time and lab materials for research, alert people really don't need them. The three buildings' demolitions could be intuited by a mere child playing with building blocks.
That said, once a great amount of lab work and research yields something that is verified as a remaining trace material in the WTC dust, pay close attention to those who will try to dismiss it.
Also mentioned previously: There's never an attempt to deny the existence of other explosives, so mutual exclusivity (between nanothermate and other explosives) seems to be implied only by those arguing against thermate (usually by calling it thermite).
J.T.
On Oct 25, 2011, at 5:27 PM, Greg wrote:
"Based on a presentation by Jim Fetzer." -- Correction. It was by Mark Hightower – not Fetzer. And again you attack a messenger instead of the evidence, or lack-thereof.
"Only evidence indicating use of explosive material." There you go using "only" when there are in fact many signs that explosives were used.
"... seems to be implied only by those arguing against thermate (usually by calling it thermite). " -- Dude... There is thermite and thermate, but what we are referring to is nano-thermite, not nanothermate. You are terribly confused about a lot of things, J.T.
I could go on, but to respond to either of your last two e-mails that contained nothing but gibberish is really a waste of time for all of us. The e-mail before this one of yours was especially confusing.
"Pay close attention" to me everyone. I don't buy into mainstream truth movement so I therefore must be a threat to peace. :P
greg
On Oct 25, 2011, at 8:21 PM, J.T. Waldron wrote:
The presentation that was given by Fetzer took place here in Portland. It's what prompted the leader here to declare something to the effect of "thermite is bogus". So that's how I arrived at saying, "based on a presentation by Jim Fetzer", because it was based on the presentation by Jim Fetzer.
My source:
The Dark Implications of Nanothermate in WTC Dust - Unlikely Heroes Explain
One email previously indicated that, "The only evidence indicating use of explosive material" is inaccurate and went on to list additional evidence. It's interesting to see the choice to use the phrase that has already been dealt with, especially after the discrepancy was pointed out by the person you are addressing.
I've been looking at previous findings of sulfur in the dust and other articles referring to nanothermate, but the most important aspect to the "nano" properties is its explosive nature - demonstrated in Toronto on on the 10th anniversary on 9/11.
If there is anything else you have trouble understanding, tell me what it is specifically. I'll let you know if it happens to be a mistake. The "gibberish" thing just isn't cutting it.
Still looking for a response about abandoning an authentic criminal investigation and due process...
J.T.
From: Greg from Houston
To: J.T. Waldron
Cc:Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance and various individuals
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
I guess J.T. only speaks one language, gibberish, so I am finished trying to communicate with him for that reason.
J.T. - Have fun on your continuing attempts to stifle real discussion and keep everyone focused only on what the 9/11 truth gods tell us to talk about. I don't know for sure, but I have a strong feeling you don't like the Israel topic either. I'd ask you, but since I'm through communicating after this e-mail I'll be content assuming and will place my bets if the option arises.
The key to exposing 9/11 is to say nano-thermite three times as you tap your heels together. You can say nano-thermate if you prefer, J.T. I won't tell. ;)
Nano-thermite nano-thermite nano-thermite. There. All better. :)
greg
From: Greg from Houston
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
Date: November 15, 2011 12:02:03 AM PST
To: J.T. Waldron, Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance and various individuals
Wait until the Pope gets his One World Currency (Government and Religion, too!) Fired, how about a good old Inquisition? The Jesuits control the central banks already. You ain't seen nothing yet! Rule by black Mass pedophiles.
Here's something recent by Dr Fetzer on nonothermate (intentional mispelling). Unlike Kevin Barret, Stephen Jones was fired for being a slack professor. Dr Jones also submarined cold fusion research. Question authority, especially when it pretends to be on your side. Also, the Toronto conference coincided with a Montreal conference by Globalresearch.ca. A close analysis of the collpse videos of WTC7 reveals they are fake! Notice the black lines around the perimeter of the building?
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/27/nanothermite-if-it-doesnt-fit-you-must-acquit/comment-page-1/#comment-290658
Nanothermite: If It Doesn’t Fit, You Must Acquit!
11
T. Mark Hightower (with Jim Fetzer)
Those who remember the 1995 O.J. Simpson trial will recall the gloves that turned out to be “too small” for O.J.’s hands when the long-awaited day of trying them on in the courtroom finally arrived. The blood-soaked gloves (one found at the crime scene and the other found outside O.J.’s house in Brentwood the morning after his former wife was murdered) were gloated over as “hard evidence” by the prosecution and the media, which is very comparable to how the discovery of unignited nanothermite chips in the WTC dust is considered to be “hard evidence” of the explosive demolition of the Twin Towers on September 11th, 2001.
Although some have expressed skepticism about what is often called the “smoking gun” of 9/11, the great majority of 9/11 Truthers have accepted – and many have celebrated – this discovery, confident that it will lead to “a new, independent investigation” of the event and bring the perpetrators to justice. But precisely how did the resulting “nanothermite theory” of destruction of the Twin Towers come about – and how well does it stand up to critical scrutiny?
Why Nanothermite?
Observations by first responders of apparent molten metal – thought to be molten iron – could be explained by thermite reactions, which, in turn, could possibly explain the severing of steel columns through a process of melting. However, the explosive effects observed in the destruction call for some further explanation. Nanothermite has been identified as a candidate, being faster-reacting and alleged to be “an explosive form” of thermite.
In a paper titled “Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Completely Collapse?” (2006), physicist Dr. Steven E. Jones cited thermite to explain the molten metal and first started raising the possibility that nanothermite could explain the additional explosive effects observed. Then four dust samples collected in the aftermath of the towers’ collapse by different individuals were sent to Dr. Jones, and upon testing, they were found to contain unreacted red chips of a nanothermitic material.
Those results were reported in a later paper titled “Active Thermitic Material Discovered in the Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe” by Niels Harrit, et al. (April, 2009), and because of this many assumed that nanothermite had been definitively identified as the prime candidate destructive agent. The paper, said to have been peer-reviewed, came out in the Open Chemical Physics Journal (Bentham Science Publishers), causing 9/11 Truthers to run with the news that explosive nanothermite blew up the Twin Towers, proclaiming what soon became a form of gospel in the 9/11 community. The Gospel of Nanothermite has given the incendiary properties of thermite a set of new miraculous powers: in its nano-state it becomes “Super Thermite” – a high-explosive that pulverized hundreds of thousands of tons of building materials in no more than 10 seconds.
A Literature Search
A scientific person, or one who prefers to use logic, might wonder about such claims and proceed by examining the scientific literature on nanothermite as well as the principle of how explosives achieve destructive force through generating shock waves that produce fragmentation. This might be a good time to note that the Rock Creek Free Press made a very important point in its May 2009 article on nanothermite: “To be a high explosive, the reaction speed must exceed the speed of sound in the material, which is unlikely in the case of thermitic materials, but nano-thermitic material may act as a low explosive in a manner similar to gunpowder.”
Few who have carefully watched video footage of the Twin Towers coming down could fail to notice what might appropriately be called “explosive effects” in the nature of the destruction. The question then would be: Were conventional explosives or some other kind of destructive energy source employed? If nanothermite is indeed a high explosive, then was it also necessary to use conventional explosives to achieve the demolition of the towers? The more sophisticated believer might agree that conventional explosives also could have been employed, but for the scientifically less sophisticated 9/11 Truther, the “Thermite/Nanothermite Gospel” says it all – and has been “conclusively proven” by the nine authors of the 2009 published and peer-reviewed paper.
But what does other peer-reviewed scientific literature actually have to say about nanothermite? “Nanoscale Aluminum-Metal Oxide (Thermite) Reactions for Application in Energetic Materials,” Central European Journal of Energetic Materials (2010), authored by Davin G. Piercey and Thomas M. Klapötke, identifies the fastest known combustion velocity for a mixture of metal oxide and aluminum: 2,400 meters per second (m/s), in a type of nanothermite made of copper oxide and aluminum. Remember that what Steven Jones found in the dust was iron-oxide/aluminum nanothermite. The authors of this paper make it clear that copper-oxide/aluminum nanothermite is significantly more reactive than the iron-oxide version, and cite a combustion velocity of 895 m/s for an iron-oxide/aluminum nanothermite aerogel. So 895 m/s is the highest velocity yet to be found for an iron-oxide/aluminum nanothermite in the scientific literature, where this velocity is far too low to have played a significant role in the destruction of the Twin Towers by means of its shock waves.
Not Powerful Enough
Let’s examine the reason for that important last statement. The “destructive fragmentation effect” of an explosive is its detonation velocity, or the speed of the shock wave through the substance it is traveling in. To significantly fragment a substance, the detonation velocity of the explosive must equal or exceed the sonic velocity (the speed of sound) in the material. For example, the speed of sound in concrete is 3,200 m/s. In steel, the speed of sound is 6,100 m/s. Conventional high explosives such as TNT and RDX have detonation velocities of 6,900 and 8,750 m/s respectively, and are therefore capable of fragmenting concrete and steel, because both 6,900 and 8,750 exceed the sonic velocities of 3,200 m/s required to shatter concrete and 6,100 m/s required to shatter steel. As Dwain Deets has diagrammed, at only 895 m/s, iron-oxide/aluminum nanothermite does not come close to TNT and RDX.
However, prominent 9/11 researchers have nonetheless termed nanothermite to be a powerful explosive. The very highly respected David Ray Griffin, Ph.D. calls nanothermite a “high explosive” in his July 6, 2010 article entitled “Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?”, which was published in the online journal, Global Research. “High explosives, such as RDX or nanothermite,” wrote Griffin, “could explain these horizontal ejections.”
Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, the most revered of 9/11 research groups, published a piece called “Exotic High Tech Explosives Positively Identified in World Trade Center Dust” on April 5, 2009. In this they stated, “Ordinary thermite burns quickly and can melt through steel, but it is not explosive. Nanothermite, however, can be formulated as a high explosive.”
A “Secret” Technology?
While searching the open scientific literature on nanothermite and establishing the low detonation velocity of its iron-oxide/aluminum variety, chemical engineer T. Mark Hightower has been in contact and shared his findings with Dr. Steven Jones and the authors of the highly regarded April 2009 nanothermite paper, as well as with several other well-known 9/11 Truth leaders. The most recent responses to his challenges fall into two general categories. One response is that the combustion velocity of 895 m/s is enough to explain the Twin Towers’ destruction. The other is the rather persistent claim that nanothermite can indeed be a high explosive, where this formulation is a military secret that is not discussed in the open literature.
Alright. It is true that military explosives’ research employs nanotechnology and that applications involving nanothermite are a subset of this research. (The military even connects nanotechnology with mini-nukes, stating that a mini-nuke device the size of a suitcase could destroy an entire building.) But to suggest that the American military has a “secret recipe” that converts iron-oxide/aluminum nanothermite into a high explosive when this claim is contradicted by the open literature doesn’t make any sense.
Easily found in the open literature is that copper-oxide/aluminum nanothermite can have a combustion velocity of 2,400 m/s, compared to 895 m/s for an iron-oxide/aluminum nanothermite. If the 2,400 m/s number is not a military secret, why would a velocity greater than 895 m/s (for the iron-oxide variety of nanothermite) have to be kept secret? It is far more likely that the highest reported value of 895 m/s is due to physical property limitations of iron-oxide/aluminum nanothermite rather than a need to keep higher values secret.
“Combined” with Explosives?
Additionally – just to be safe, perhaps – 9/11 nanothermite advocates also maintain the fall-back position that, even if nanothermite by itself is not a high explosive, when combined with an organic substance (also asserted to not be itself a high explosive), a high-explosive is created. To that T. Mark Hightower responds: “There is only one sure way to make nanothermite a high explosive. If you combine enough high explosives with nanothermite, you can get a mixture that is a high explosive. But the same can be said for my breakfast cereal.”
Hightower has further calculated that if conventional explosives (such as TNT or RDX) acting alone were used to bring down the Twin Towers, the quantity necessary would have been hundreds of tons of explosives per tower. On July 27, 2011, Niels Harrit (chief author of the 2009 nanothermite paper) presented a calculation for how much thermitic material would have been necessary to explain the presence of the many tiny iron-rich spheres in the dust (assuming that a thermite reaction was the source of the spheres).
He gave a range of numbers, based on lower and higher concentrations of the thermite formulation. His lowest figure amounted to 29,000 metric tons of thermitic explosive per tower – a value hundreds of times greater than the calculation for conventional explosives. His “conservative” estimate (based on 10% iron-oxide in the thermitic material) was 143,000 metric tons of thermitic material that would have been placed in each tower. But let’s be realistic: How could the perpetrators drag in and plant over 100,000 tons of explosive without being seen? Even 29,000 tons is hard to imagine and would have been rather difficult to put in place unnoticed.
The Missing Element
A side note from the many technical papers on nanothermite studied by Hightower: nanothermite produces a blinding flash of light when it goes off. If such immense quantities of nanothermite were used to blow up the Twin Towers, then why didn’t we see tremendous bursts of blinding light all over those two buildings as they were destroyed and largely converted into millions of cubic yards of very fine dust?
The Dangers of a False Theory
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, which is led by Richard Gage, has been ceaselessly promoting the nanothermite discovery as the “smoking gun” of 9/11, and calling the substance a “high explosive”. If there is ever a proper investigation and a lawsuit is filed in a court of law on the “strength” of nanothermite as “hard evidence” of controlled demolition by explosives at the World Trade Center and it is revealed to the court by the opposing side that nanothermite is at best a very weak “explosive” and could not possibly have destroyed the Twin Towers in seconds, the entire case would almost certainly be dismissed and a legal precedent set against future efforts by others.
The danger of promoting a false theory or of overselling a weak hypothesis to millions of people is that it may someday be a convenient way to close the book on the entire issue. That 9/11 nanothermite advocates insist on their position in the face of significant refutations is disturbing. They are clearly unwilling to change their minds or even to discuss facts that expose weaknesses in their statements. What do these refusals really mean? Are some leaders deliberately pushing a flimsy theory with the intent that it will ultimately be shot down? Or is nanothermite a red herring or limited hangout to keep us from looking into what was really used?
The 9/11 Truth community can be confident in its refutations of the official account of 9/11 without having to present a “bullet-proof” alternate theory. It may well be that thermite/thermate/nanothermite was used in its familiar role as an incendiary (or “cutter charge”) in destroying the Twin Towers. But that is very different than to claim that it is a “high explosive” that could have destroyed those buildings. The 9/11 Truth movement must not commit itself to a feeble alternative, especially when an honest assessment of the empirical data for that theory does not support its applicability and actually refutes it.
From: JT
To: Greg from Houston Cc: Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance and Various other individuals
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
"Stephen Jones was fired for being a slack professor. Dr Jones also submarined cold fusion research. Question authority, especially when it pretends to be on your side."
I wouldn't care if Steven Jones was caught masturbating in his office. What matters is his work concerning this subject. It's worth scrutinizing, however, vague attempts to smear the reputation of the messenger.
"A close analysis of the collpse videos of WTC7 reveals they are fake! Notice the black lines around the perimeter of the building?"
Of course. It's another important piece of evidence. The establishment has nowhere to go with this video footage of WTC7's collapse, so it must be impugned by people within the 9/11 Truth movement. Lovely PR.
T. Mark Hightower starts out with a bad metaphor:
"Those who remember the 1995 O.J. Simpson trial will recall the gloves that turned out to be “too small” for O.J.’s hands when the long-awaited day of trying them on in the courtroom finally arrived. The blood-soaked gloves (one found at the crime scene and the other found outside O.J.’s house in Brentwood the morning after his former wife was murdered) were gloated over as “hard evidence” by the prosecution and the media, which is very comparable to how the discovery of unignited nanothermite chips in the WTC dust is considered to be “hard evidence” of the explosive demolition of the Twin Towers on September 11th, 2001."
A fair question would be, "would a litigator include the evidence of remaining explosive residues in the dust as evidence of a controlled demolition?"
Of course.
Even if it does not complete the picture of everything used to achieve a controlled demolition?
Of course. The bi-product of the substance found in the dust are droplets of molten iron found in all dust samples and confirmed by three different sources.
The idea of comparing the gloves to the dust samples is pretty dumb.
The relevance to their respective cases are different and the dust samples need merely to be added to the body of evidence as useful to the case for controlled demolition. The idea that "if thermitic material is not the only explosive, then you must dismiss it as evidence" is absolute bullshit.
In addition, the blood-soaked gloves in the O.J. Simpson case represents one of a small pool of evidence available at the crime scene. A crime scene that incorporated the most sophisticated, most expensive forensic lab work available hours after the crime was committed. The 9/11 crime scene immediately begun shipping key evidence off of the premises in New York and there was no immediate forensic evaluation even when it was normal protocol to do so. If the opportunity to test for explosives was taken, then time-sensitive residues may have provided a bigger picture of the types of explosives used.
Despite the differences in these cases, the amount of evidence pointing to an inside job for 9/11 far surpasses the amount of evidence available at the time to convict O.J. That's why the focus has turned towards denouncing other important pieces of evidence like videos of WTC7's collapse.
"The more sophisticated believer might agree that conventional explosives also could have been employed, but for the scientifically less sophisticated 9/11 Truther, the “Thermite/Nanothermite Gospel” says it all – and has been “conclusively proven” by the nine authors of the 2009 published and peer-reviewed paper."
I don't really need to be advised about what a "sophisticated 9/11 Truther" might believe. I'm more interested in sophisticated attempts to denounce the one detectible explosive substance in the in the WTC dust. Most importantly, who is pushing it.
Love the fact Hightower makes the point of accommodating those who believe there were other explosives, then continues to condemn the "less sophisticated 9/11 Truther" as someone who will only believe that nanothermite is the sole explosive. There lies the offense of the scientists pointing out what they detected in the dust!
"A side note from the many technical papers on nanothermite studied by Hightower: nanothermite produces a blinding flash of light when it goes off. If such immense quantities of nanothermite were used to blow up the Twin Towers, then why didn’t we see tremendous bursts of blinding light all over those two buildings as they were destroyed and largely converted into millions of cubic yards of very fine dust?"
It's called opacity. Like walls that cover what we see inside the buildings.
The rest of the details in Hightower's article (accept for the laughable, tenuous connection to mini-nukes) are handily obliterated with this video by Jonathan Cole:
Jonathan Cole - 9/11: Thermate Debate - AE911Truth.org
http://youtu.be/Qamecech9m4
Still looking for a response about abandoning an authentic criminal investigation and due process...
J.T.
From: Michael
Subject: [Portland911Truth] Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
Date: November 15, 2011 11:39:09 PM PST
To all new members and those of you who have been following this bickering that I have asked to please CEASE, IMMEDIATELY, DO NOT be conned by some of the authors of this email chain who have their entire being and petty ego's wrapped up in their theory of what MAY have happened on 9/11 that brought the towers down in a controlled demolition fashion.
This is a tactic used to confuse and annoy you to the point that you lose interest in the entire subject.
The debate is centered around the most confusing aspects of the 9/11 fraud to get you to focus on that rather than the BLATANT FABRICATIONS AND LIES SUCH AS THE PENTAGON AND SHANKSVILLE, PA "CRASHES", the 9/11 comission report/garbage, just to name a few.
I've said this MANY times.... none of us know until we OCCUPY THE PENTAGON AND DC. The methods used in the demolition of the 3 towers is worth debating, obviously, but the tone in which some use to do it is unacceptable and will no longer be tolerated. From this point on, a comment that is made that has the slightest bit of disrespect, will flag that member for removal from the group. This group and society as a whole is coming together against the federal corruption and injustices that are taking place all over the world and this group will be a part of that.
I want someone who thinks that a REAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION into the lies of 9/11, to tell me how it will actually come about? REALLY!!! It's about as far-fetched as occupying DC but not out of the question. Presently, the universal tide is shifting in favor of humanity and light. WE MUST STAY UNITED! You are allowed to disagree but realize that YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED EITHER ON 9/11, SO GET OVER YOURSELF AND YOUR THEORY, BECAUSE THAT'S ALL IT IS AT THIS POINT! If you disagree with my previous statement, then just leave the group because you are ignorant and nobody wants you around keeping us and humanity from reaching higher levels of consciousness, which is what the TRUTH movement is really all about.
Things never change until the whole world rises up and reaches higher, which is happening now! Be a part of it. If you are passionate about 9/11 TRUTH, then wake people up to the ridiculous lies they have been told and admit to them that you don't have ALL OF THE ANSWERS, but you know WHAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, AS WELL AS WHAT SHOULD'VE HAPPENED ON 9/11 SUCH AS NORAD, BUT DIDN'T or the DANCING ISRAELI'S, THE HUGE ISRAELI SPY NETWORK, ETC.... And at the very least, get people to stop being so gullible and start questioning the media and authority. Sheeple don't wake up over night. Plant a seed and move on! And for God sake, become more aware of your own actions, communication and realize if you may be contributing to the divide and conquer strategy.
Please respond with tact if you feel the need to,
Michael Sullivan, founder of Portland 9/11 Truth on meetup.com
www.REDISCOVER911.com
On Nov 17, 2011, at 12:35 AM, Greg wrote:
Good points, Michael. If a new "investigation" were to hinge on nano-thermite, then all it would take to discredit us would be for the demolition contractor to say they used the stuff to clean up the debris! It is a great cutting agent for steel. Also, the article showed that nano-thermite has less explosive force than conventional demolition explosives. Just because someone acts like they are on your side, doesn't mean they are. That's how I got swindled out of my inheritances by my family.
Getting through to the dolts with their head in the sand about 9/11 is the hard part. That takes a min-nuke, LOL. Good luck to everyone and thanks for trying.
From: "J.T. Waldron"
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:34:18 -0800
To:
Cc: sullivan michael
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
"If a new "investigation" were to hinge on nano-thermite, then all it would take to discredit us would be for the demolition contractor to say they used the stuff to clean up the debris!"
O.K. Michael. Your turn. This time it is up to you to explain why this scenario wouldn't go down the way your buddy in Houston suggests. While you are at it, find out why he's using the term "hinged" when nothing of the sort was implied.
You bought the Meetup leadership mantle as you declare at the end of your last temper tantrum.
Let's see it.
J.T.
From: Michael
Subject: Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
Date: November 17, 2011 10:03:33 AM PST
To: jt@soundandfury.tv
Reply-To: Michael
Poor JT. You just don't get it, do you? Or you are a complete agent, either way, I wish you a lot of luck in your journey. I want you to realize that it was nothing like a tempur tantrum, it was meant to be enlightening. If not an agent, you are PRECISELY the type I was writing about. As for "my buddy" in Houston, not sure who you are eluding to exactly, but when others present their theories, they do so in a logical, humble way... Like I said, they are THEORIES. None of us know, we must stay united. I'm sick of the negativity and the petty ego's in society, which includes the Truth movement. How's that for "my turn?"
Please just leave the group JT, don't make me make me go through the blocking you process. Good luck and remember that its a spiritual journey.
Michael
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: jt@soundandfury.tv
Subject: [Portland911Truth] Re: Woman loses job for speaking the truth
Date: November 17, 2011 11:42:10 AM PST
To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
Reply-To: Portland911Truth-list@meetup.com
The thread speaks for itself. You either have an answer or you don't.
J.T.
From: info@meetup.com
Subject: You've been removed from Portland 9/11 Truth
Date: November 17, 2011 10:33:42 PM PST
To: jt@soundandfury.tv
Reply-To: healthywealthy13@yahoo.com
You have been removed from Portland 9/11 Truth.
There are over 93,123 groups on Meetup with 1,048 groups near
Portland. You can join another Meetup Group and meet up with
real people who share your interests.
* Click here to see the 1,048 groups near Portland:
http://www.meetup.com/cities/us/or/portland/
Best regards,
The Team at Meetup HQ
You got kicked out?
ReplyDeleteMeetup Group: Portland 9/11 Truth (Note: This is not the other 9/11 truth group called "Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance" which has its leaders putting forth the notion that no planes hit the Twin Towers)
ReplyDeletelol okay u and ur group might want to stop LYING before yall get more embarrassed if thats possible.
u ever ask around how antifa/opp/ara found out petros and tim titrud were running a scam? you clowns should just basically assume all the email lists you ever ran got leaked
LOL u rilly are a moron
that no planes thang only was ever pushed on ginny ross's private list
meaning to know it youre friends with these people AND KNOW THEYRE ALL THE SAME GROUP
it would also help if glenn goldman wasn't endorsed on ginny's yahoo list AND goldman himself didn't promote the true brew meetings on his list.
and roy mcoy and ginny weren't publishing public emails to the harvard gustavo guy who is friends with petros and sara.
and inviting a convicted bomber to speak and trying to scam people saying he's a political prisoner was rilly dumb too.
gosh hope you don't hang with thses peeps anymore
hear the fbi has been sent some of this info
they're not too tolerant of convicted bombers and people who support them/lie to get people involved in frauds
in case u didn't know